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Thread: TyDVD (DTiVo -> DVD) success!

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Posts
    199
    I've tried a few authoring packages, and my verdict is: For TyStream to DVD, use SpruceUp or Maestro.

    Use SpruceUp for simple stuff, such as a full-length movie with no commercials where you don't care much about leaving on any extraneous crap at the beginning or end.

    Use Maestro for the complex stuff, where you want to be able to automatically skip chapters and design your own funky custom menus.

    The rest of them are either way too basic or spend too much time fretting about spec compliance. Maestro will warn you that not all players can handle MPEG audio - SpruceUp won't even warn you.

    But the rest of the mid to high-end packages that I've seen check the stream way too much for compliance and don't have a "seatbelts off" mode.

    As for transcoding, I've yet to have much real success. I've tried a few times but never been happy with the results. The un-transcoded version always looks better. The only reason that I have for continuing to try this is one or two streams that have GOP corruption and thus won't import into either of the Spruces.

    Note: My favourite NLE (Pinnacle Studio 7) is due to ship a new version soon which is supposed to import MPEG streams, so once I've got a copy I'll see how it handles TiVo's 480x480 streams.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    1

    Unhappy BeSweetv

    Could someone please post the exact commands to upsample the mpa file with BeSweetv? It would be much appreciated!

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    174
    I'm assuming you are using the BeSweet GUI with BeSweet. I'm using GUI v0.6b5

    On the starting screen (the "BeSweet" button should be depresses) you want to check the following:
    "Use MPA Decoder" under Hip
    "Downconvert Sample Rate" under SSRC
    "Color All Supported Switches" under General

    Under '2Lame', select MP2.

    Next, click "2Lame" on the right side of the screen. This will allow you to set the MP2 settings. The following are settings I use to convert SA Tivo audio into DVD compliant audio - feel free to change things if you want different options.

    Under "Output Options":
    Check "Encoding Mode" and select "Stereo"
    Check "Total Bitrate" and select 192

    Under "Misc" check "Add Error Protection" (I'm not sure if that is necessary, but it is the default and doesn't seem to hurt).

    Next click "SSRC" on the right side of the screen. This will configure the upconverting of the sample rate.

    Under "SSRC Options":
    Check "Set Sampling Rate of Output FIle to" and select 48000
    Check "Normalize the Wave File" (assuming you want this option).

    Click on "BeSweet" on the right side of the screen. Now you are back to where you started.

    Select the input and output files and click on "MPA to MP2" to start converting.

    Once you get it set up correctly, I recomend saving the whole thing in a profile so you don't have to do it every time.

    For reference, my "Command Line" box reads the following:
    Code:
    "C:\Program Files\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe"
    -core( -input "c:\Tivo\201_muxed_48k_edit_1.mpa" 
    -output "d:\TivoVid\201.mp2" ) 
    -azid( -c light -L -3db --maximize ) 
    -ssrc( --rate 48000 --normalize ) 
    -2lame( -m s -b 192 -c -e )
    Good luck.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    311

    Re: BeSweetv

    Originally posted by help
    Could someone please post the exact commands to upsample the mpa file with BeSweetv? It would be much appreciated!

    help...

    just an FYI, if you go to the doom9 website, you will find more how-to's and guides than you could imagine...
    -- digitalAir

    1 DSR6000R (35 hour) currently running Xtreme 3.1 and tivonet

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    54
    In both maestro and spruceup, I'm getting the following error (paraphrased) "bad temporal references in the gop". It then bombs out, and refuses to even try to import that file again unless I delete the .prv/.pra files.

    Now, this file plays absolutely fine on the tivo, no sound gaps, no pixellation, no stuttering, so while I'm sure something is missing, I don't really think it's that important.

    I've been archiving this show, and this has happened to two episodes so far this season. Not making me a happy camper.

    Any ideas what I can do to try to fix this? I don't really want to re-encode, the files although I could in theory, but only as an absolute last resort measure.

    Is there anything out there that will look and tell me whats wrong with the GOP (well, not *everything* thats wrong with the GOP, I know the tivo doesn't stay in the 18 frame DVD standard).

    Anyone run into something like this before? I wonder if the muxing version of tytool would be intelligently able to deal with this in the future.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    54
    I can almost guarantee if I get a reply at all, it'll be "What was the vsplit output?" So, to preempt that, here it is:

    As you can see, there was indeed some missing stuff, but as I said, the clip plays as well as can be expected on the tivo itself, I certainly didn't notice any problems.

    Detected Tivo Type: DTivo

    Detected Audio Stream Type: MPEG Layer II

    Final standardAudioSize = 588

    Final standardFrameLength = 576

    Final standardAudioDiff = 2160 or 00:00:00.024

    First Video PTS: 00:01:00.484

    ......... 100......... 200......... 300......... 400......... 500

    ......... 600......... 700......... 800......... 900......... 1000

    ......... 1100......... 1200......... 1300......... 1400......... 1500

    ......... 1600......... 1700......... 1800......... 1900......... 2000

    ......... 2100......... 2200......... 2300......... 2400......... 2500

    ......... 2600......... 2700......... 2800......... 2900......... 3000

    ......... 3100......... 3200......... 3300......... 3400......... 3500

    ......... 3600......... 3700......... 3800......... 3900......... 4000

    ......... 4100......... 4200......... 4300......... 4400......... 4500

    ......... 4600......... 4700......... 4800......... 4900......... 5000

    ......... 5100......... 5200......... 5300......... 5400......... 5500

    ......... 5600......... 5700......... 5800......... 5900......... 6000

    ......... 6100......... 6200......... 6300......... 6400......... 6500

    ......... 6600......... 6700......... 6800......... 6900......... 7000

    ......... 7100......... 7200......... 7300......... 7400......... 7500

    ......... 7600......... 7700......... 7800......... 7900......... 8000

    ......... 8100.........-1x4 - No PTS values in the entire chunk... Use it but this is problematic...



    -1x4: Number of Records: 11 ( b 0 ff ff)

    -1x4: # 0 vid ( 28908): 7 e c2 e0 f8 f1 3d 1f 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

    -1x4: # 1 vid ( 14028): 3 6c cb e0 fc 93 34 1f 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

    -1x4: # 2 vid ( 14412): 3 84 cb e0 fc 7b 34 1f 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

    -1x4: # 3 vid ( 39116): 9 8c ca e0 f6 73 35 1f 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

    -1x4: # 4 vid ( 15756): 3 d8 cb e0 fc 27 34 1f 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

    -1x4: # 5 vid ( 12332): 3 2 cb e0 fc fd 34 1f 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

    -1x4: # 6 aud ( 1272): 0 4f 83 c0 ff b0 7c 3f 0 0 0 19 a9 10 6b f0

    -1x4: # 7 aud ( 644): 0 28 43 c0 ff d7 bc 3f 0 0 0 19 ac 2d 9d 90

    -1x4: # 8 aud ( 644): 0 28 43 c0 ff d7 bc 3f 0 0 0 19 ad bc 36 60

    -1x4: # 9 aud ( 1272): 0 4f 83 c0 ff b0 7c 3f 0 0 0 19 af 4a cf 30

    -1x4: # 10 aud ( 644): 0 28 43 c0 ff d7 bc 3f 0 0 0 19 b2 68 0 d0

    Error. We did not find an embedded audio header!

    Error. We did not find an embedded audio header!

    Error. We did not find an embedded audio header!

    Error. We did not find an embedded audio header!

    Error. We did not find an embedded audio header!

    8200......... 8300......... 8400......... 8500

    ......... 8600......... 8700......... 8800......... 8900......... 9000

    ......... 9100......... 9200......... 9300......... 9400......... 9500

    ......... 9600......... 9700......... 9800......... 9900.........10000

    .........10100.........10200.........10300.........10400.........10500

    .........10600.........10700.........10800.........10900.........11000

    .........11100.........11200.........11300.........11400.........11500

    .........11600.........11700.........11800.........11900.........12000

    ......-1x4 - No PTS values in the entire chunk... Use it but this is problematic...



    -1x4: Number of Records: 2 ( 2 0 ff ff)

    -1x4: # 0 vid ( 11828): 2 e3 42 e0 30 61 ed f0 0 0 3 8b a7 17 51 3c

    -1x4: # 1 0 ( 0): 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 8b a7 17 51 3c

    ...12100.....



    A/V Sync Offset: -7ms (i.e. plays 7ms late!)

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Posts
    199
    The problem is that the stream uses a proprietary protocol. The same genius who worked out Microsoft's SMB protocol and gave us Samba managed to crack it and developed the first extraction tools.

    Unfortunately this is a difficult science. Trust me; I've worked on comms protocols, other people's assembler code and decompiled Java, and that's a doddle compared to reverse engineering something like this. The code works at least 90% of the time, but now we are down to certain funky edge conditions that aren't handled properly yet.

    You've hit one of them with the missing embedded audio headers. I've seen that too. Now the stream plays fine in TiVo, so obviously the headers are there, but the demuxing code doesn't recognise them.

    So the best thing that you can do is to archive your stream and wait for future splitting tools to come along.
    SVR 2000 running 3.0 with 1x160Gb and Lifetime Sub
    SAT-T60 running 3.1 with 1x250Gb and Turbonet over 802.11

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    54
    Ok, I can deal with that.

    Question though, what IS the best way to archive a tystream? I have a dvd burner, should I just slap them on there three at a time and wait for a time when I can deal with them? I also have a sizeable amount of network storage available, but fear bitrot.

    Also, somewhere over in the tystream insertion discussions, I read that tytool throws away a valuable header that was once through as junk. Will that matter for this? Should I use tridge's mfs_extract instead?

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    6,413
    I've had the same problems crop up from time to time and, so far, it has not had any adverse affect on any TyDVDs I've burned. The best way to find out is to go ahead compile the program to a title set in SpruceUp or Maestro and then burn the compilation to a DVD-RW using Nero and see how it plays back. You can always erase the disc and reuse it. If you're happy with the results and want to archive it permanently, burn it to a DVD-R. If you don't get a clean recording then most likely the tystream is corrupt and you should try to record the program again.
    Please don't PM me or any other members looking for personal assistance. You'll do better by posting (after you've exhausted the search feature, of course) and taking advantage of the collective expertise of the membership instead of a single individual that may or may not be able to help you. Thank you and enjoy your stay at DDB!

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    54
    Well, you see, thats the damndest part of it all.

    The extracted mp* files play in media player. They can be transcoded to divx. They can be remuxed by tmpgenc and womble's mpeg2vcr (although the muxed version has the same problem as the unmuxed version). They can be broken up, burnt to svcd, and played fine on both my PC and standalone dvd player.

    Just about the only thing that I can't do with them is burn them to DVD with either spruceup or maestro.

    I get the same error in both, which is approximately "temporal references in a gop are out of sequence". The import then aborts.

    I'm reasonably sure that if the SVCD method worked, that if I could get the tool to ignore the error and burn the disc, that it'd work. But I can't. And thats what sucks.

    So thats the impasse I'm at. I've been archiving shows in divx for a long time, recently switched over to this TyDVD method, and now I find episodes I can't use in this method. Really disheartening, as I'm a stickler for consistency. I'm *this* close to just going back to transcoding everything to divx, and awaiting hardware mpeg4 players, or a program that can deal with the more amusing aspects of the dtv transport streams.

    I just wish there was something I could do to doctor these up to work in Spruce/Maestro.. or any other editing program that worked with the fakeout res method that would ignore these minor errors.

    If anyone has ever successfully doctored an mpeg like I have to make spruce play nice with it, please let me know.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    231
    I have this really odd issue. Spruce isnt picking up the audio, and its not crashing. Since its not picking up audio or crashing, it never works.

    Any suggestions?

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Posts
    199
    Originally posted by sirfergy
    I have this really odd issue. Spruce isnt picking up the audio, and its not crashing. Since its not picking up audio or crashing, it never works.



    Any suggestions?
    Make sure you've patched the video header. Delete the index files. Ensure that both video and audio have the same prefix and that the system recognises that the audio file as a known type. I always use m2v and m2a as suffixes. Then try importing the asset again.

    If that doesn't work, try using a different auth pkg such as Maestro
    SVR 2000 running 3.0 with 1x160Gb and Lifetime Sub
    SAT-T60 running 3.1 with 1x250Gb and Turbonet over 802.11

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