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Thread: MUX'ing, VSplit, and MPG2 files.

  1. #601
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    Jan 2002
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    Ok. The option for between the 2 PACK sizes has been put in and setup correctly. It is not easy to move between them.

    I have started cleaning up the code. In talkig with olaf via email he confirmed some stuff I had found on the web. Most of what needs to be added are some PCI and DSI packets during the mux. I know how to do that already. He is going to provide code and specifics on things and so DVD vob/ifo output should be forth coming sometime soon which will be great!

    The web page where I found the info is:

    http://mpucoder.dynodns.net/dvd

    The NAV packets that have been mentioned are really just MPEG-2 PES packets that are considered DVD Private stream. I can add the mux'ing for them in short order.

    But, and here is the bad news. After the last few days I need a break. So I am going to head out for the weekend. I will be back on Monday and we can go from there.

    Sorry for the delay but I put in close to 16 hours a day this last week trying to figure all of this out. We made great strides but I... well need a break.

    --jdiner

  2. #602
    Join Date
    May 2002
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    For anyone that cares that /dvd needs to be /DVD. Case sensitive... :-)

    Skorous

    EDIT: Rats, forgot to hit paste.

    JD,

    Have a good weekend. < joke > You know if you get this mux'ing thing working the day I get a job I'll never forgive you. < /joke >

  3. #603
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    re: SVCD vs DVD

    the key thing is that for SVCD you transcode the data to save space, but this takes a LOT of CPU time and looses a significant amout of quality as well

    so creating SVCD's is a lot harder to do, and doing it properly requires that all the issued needed to create DVD's works properly first (trying to transcode data that isn't consistant to begin with is a waste of time)

  4. #604
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
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    28

    SA files

    I was board today so I tried the latest build (build h) on my SA .ty files and...it worked! I got about 10 minutes of video and perfectly synced audio. I could even seek around the clip! Using vsplit without muxing with these same files gave me audio sync errors of more than 3 seconds, so this is an improvement. The final format I want is Divx so I am currently running them through Gordian Knot to see if it's still happy. I don't expect any problems. I don't know why it works but I'm happy. Now, when we get a build that will run the full length I will be ecstatic. Keep up the good work Jdiner.

    Update: The audio wanders out of sync in the Divx Gordian Knot creates. I don't know if it's because I don't know how to use GK with this kind of stream or if the stream is broken.

    -GITM
    Last edited by GITM; 10-20-2002 at 02:00 AM.

  5. #605
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    Originally posted by dlang
    re: SVCD vs DVD

    the key thing is that for SVCD you transcode the data to save space, but this takes a LOT of CPU time and looses a significant amout of quality as well

    so creating SVCD's is a lot harder to do, and doing it properly requires that all the issued needed to create DVD's works properly first (trying to transcode data that isn't consistant to begin with is a waste of time)
    I speak only from experience... and I can't disagree more. SVCD is a peice of cake with my SA. I configure my output on my .ty stream using TiVoWeb's resource editor -> 480x480 2600 maxbitrate. All I have to do is upsample the audio to 44.1khz mux with mplex and I can burn with Nero.

    DVD on the other hand, poses more hurdles. Because of the extra steps required to create a "title set" or DVD compliant .vob files and .ifo files -> the tools required to do that seem to me quite sensitive to the source files you feed them. Hence , I encounter quite afew WASTED hours getting nowhere - where following exactly the same process that worked perfectly on the last set of files, ends in failure.
    ~Hi8

    (4) Hughes SD DVR40
    (1) Hughes HR10-250
    (2) xbmc XBOX X2 & xbit

  6. #606
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    May 2002
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    but the key difference is that with the SA tivo you set your quality appropriatly on the tivo and are done (you have a CBR source) with the dtivo you have a VBR source that would need to be transcoded to become SVCD

    it sounds like you don't need anything other then a working muxer for the SAtivo anyway so it's basicly at teh point where you can do it there. for the dtivo we have to finish hashing out all the VBF/VFR issues before we can consider either one

  7. #607
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    Originally posted by jdiner
    I am not giving up on editing. Neither mine nor the chance to use someone elses editor. mpeg2vcr is out as I know it messes things up, but I have not test m2-edit yet... Or the PowerDirector program again...

    --jdiner

    jdiner....

    I continue to be baffled by comments about MPEG2VCR - both from you and others, about the bad interface, messes things up etc...

    (I am using streams from an SA)

    Using Vsplit13c - and mplex I then import into MPEG2VCR run the GOP fixer to level 2 -> on the mpeg file. I then open the file in MPEG2VCR and edit out commercials (2-3mins for 30min show) then "record" the file (write output to new mpeg) -> and burn to SVCD. I have in-sync discs. What exactly do you see that MPEG2VCR does to mess things up? Is this just a DTivo/SA stream thing?


    I think I should also add, I do have to select "burn non-compliant SVCD" in Nero, but my Apex play the dics perfectly, also my Nextbase and Koss216x players.


    I should also mention I can do all of this while I'm extracting tystreams with Tytool5 in another window!
    Last edited by Hi8; 10-20-2002 at 03:01 AM.
    ~Hi8

    (4) Hughes SD DVR40
    (1) Hughes HR10-250
    (2) xbmc XBOX X2 & xbit

  8. #608
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    May 2002
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    jdiner,
    I just had a thought. when the dtivo switches from one frame rate to another it must put the new frame rate in the header somehow.

    if you can detect this transition and flag it instead of just watching the timestamps and setting your bitrates it may make it easier to make a 'good' resulting mpeg in addition it would also seem to me that the transition from one frame rate to another is something significant enough to track for trimming leater/trailers off of clips and/or trimming commercials out of the middle of movies (if the movie is at 24FPS and the commercials are at 29.97FPS.....)

  9. #609
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    35

    We're still (officially) not talking SA...

    Originally posted by Hi8:

    I continue to be baffled by comments about MPEG2VCR - both from you and others, about the bad interface, messes things up etc...

    (I am using streams from an SA)
    Unfortunately, that's exactly the problem, as I see it. It's the VFR from the DTivos that cause problems when used in MPEG2VCR and others. I understand the confusion, as I'm quite nicely now using a SA with several different editing programs with only minor problems.

    But remember, jdiner's *primary* interest (for the simple reason that it's what he uses, from what I understand) is DTivo---also, I would assume, the reason this thread is in the DTivo section, even if there are applicable parts to SA. I've found most of my confusion tends to come from differences between the two.

    Personally, josh, thanks for supporting those of us with SA's at all!
    CDJ

  10. #610
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    May 2002
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    just a quick reminder about the difference between the SA and Dtivos

    the SA tivo gets an analog signal into it, digitizes it and mpeg compresses it. the result is a standard mpeg CBR file which is almost trivial to deal with. unfortunantly you have quality losses in the analog signal transmission, the digitizing, and the mpeg compression.

    the Dtivo receives a digital signal in the direct-tv format and records that directly. this means there are no transmission losses, and the digitizing and mpeg encoding is done with studio equipment (higher quality digitizers and no need to compress in realtime so additional optimizations like VBR can be used) producing better quality results then the SA tivo can.

    people just useing their tivo normally won't see these differences (other then the quality setting on the SA version) but when extracting the video data to burn elsewhere these differences are fundamental

  11. #611
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    Apr 2002
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    Wales UK
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    Just to confirm H seems to keep good sync on a UK
    SA 2.5 stream. Way to go.
    I'm lucky my DVD will take the remuxed ty and play it quite happily

    Alun

  12. #612
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
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    54
    Originally posted by otakucode
    Hmmm... if I'm following the current of this discussion, it seems like everyone has decided that DVD output for DTivo streams is what we're going for... I've been watching this thread all along since the beginning hoping for SA Tivo stream muxing that can be edited and then either transcoded into Divx or to SVCD. I guess I need to go out and buy a DTivo, subscribe to DirectTV, buy a DVD burner, and some DVD-Rs huh? Ouch...

    OtakuCODE
    Sorry if I'm a little late on this one, I haven't been around lately.

    I'm confused. I've seen a number of posts similiar to this one, and I'm in no way singling Otaku out.

    If transcoding is your ultimate goal, what more is needed other than what vsplit already does? Earlier this year when I actually had some free time, I transcoded a large quantity of stuff without a hitch. vsplit to video and audio, video through dvd2avi -> avisynth -> virtualdub, m2a audio -> wav via besweet -> virtualdub, rinse, wash, repeat.

    My experiences dictate that having a muxed mpeg2 program stream to start would only add steps to this process. Is there some sort of all in one tool that I'm not aware of that you plan to throw the program stream at?

    I briefly experimented with such tools, but they never gave me the amount of control I wanted, so I stopped using them.

  13. #613
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    Originally posted by Kythorn
    Sorry if I'm a little late on this one, I haven't been around lately.
    I think that says it all.

    Vsplit hopes to do just that, either intergrated within TyTool5 - along with the ability to edit out commericals and to Author DVD Title Sets.

    1 complete application

    This is what jdiner has eluded to.
    ~Hi8

    (4) Hughes SD DVR40
    (1) Hughes HR10-250
    (2) xbmc XBOX X2 & xbit

  14. #614
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    USA
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    Originally posted by Hi8

    Vsplit hopes to do just that, either intergrated within TyTool5 - along with the ability to edit out commericals and to Author DVD Title Sets.

    1 complete application
    Wow.


    I have a question related to editing. Every time I take a .mpg stream and edit it with one of the boxed packages (MGI VW5, Sonic, Pinnacle Studio 7.x, etc...) it transcodes it before creating the image. Additionally, every time that same stream is transcoded I loose a touch of video quality. Are we (by we I mean JD) looking to have vsplit prepare a ty all the way to DVD ready??? Or, am I doing something wrong in the way I'm editing and preparing the image??

    BTW, I have tried the whole patching/fake-out thing and it works but I don't want to be tied to my JVC for the rest of my life. I alreay have a ton of VHS-C tapes that I have to dig out my camera from the 1900s for! (I broke the little converter thing...)
    -Bronco

  15. #615
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
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    54
    Since I can't delete this, I'm removing the contents. Forget I said anything I guess.

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