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Thread: MUX'ing, VSplit, and MPG2 files.

  1. #226
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    I can't attest to how technically "right" it is, and I know others have had issues, but almost everything I've made using mplex plays fine, generally better than what I've made with tmpgenc.

    Now, I'm also aware that you have used mplex in the past, so I can only assume you've not had satisfactory results with it.

    I think something that's been mentioned that that might bear investigating, is when playback is out of sync, what codecs are involved?

    The situation isn't the same, but I've seen mpeg4 clips that were out of synch in dshow, that worked fine in vfw.

    I've also had tivo clips that were out of synch in powerdvd that played fine in a hardware player (generally considered more inflexible, I would have guessed this situation would have been reversed)

    If we're going to be trying to figure whether or not something is sync'd, I think we need to eliminate as many variables as possible - I just don't have any real constructive suggestions on how to accomplish this.

  2. #227
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    Originally posted by jdiner
    I asked this once before but never really got clear on any of it. Does anyone have a program they use to mux streams, besides tmpgenc that produces a stream that will play cleanly and with sync. I am not talking about being edited, just mux and play.
    The muxer in mpeg-vcr has given me bad sync. I say it failed.

    I have had sucess with bbMpeg (AKA avi2mpg2) when used as just a muxer. Its a bit tricky to get configured, but there are instructions here on the board.

    I thought I remembered some people having sucess using some basic unix tools too (mplex?).

  3. #228
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    Originally posted by dattrax
    Hi,

    to be honest, I just use bbmpeg 12418. I extract using Tytool from my SA, set the program stream type to ~DVD and either add or subtract the number of ms from the 180ms delay for startup. This file is always in sync, but it even stays in sync if I use m2-edit to cut the ad breaks.

    The only 'problem' you get is that it takes about 1 second after a seek in powerdvd for the audio and video to get to the same position, but it doesn't happen on my standalone player.

    Jim
    This makes sense to me as the SA Tivo is CBR. And constant bit rate makes some things so much easier. For the DTivo with the seriously VBR nature of it all it seems as if all bets are off.

    Just to give you all a better idea as to why I am wondering on this... The SCR field is used to sync the playback of each seperate Elementary Stream to the others, in our case the other one. Given the sync problems that would seem important wouldn't it...

    The calculation for MPEG-1 is pretty simple. The calculation for mpeg-2 is more complex but related pretty directly. The calculation for a VBR mpeg-2 stream is undocumented...

    --jdiner

  4. #229
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    sorry I forgot to mention that my tivo is set to VBR encoding mode, or space saving as it called.

    certainly when I looked at this before the PTS values where in the stream. If these are used natively it should stay in sync.

    Jim
    Last edited by dattrax; 09-28-2002 at 05:58 PM.

  5. #230
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    Originally posted by FreydNot
    The muxer in mpeg-vcr has given me bad sync. I say it failed.
    I take this back. My test was flawed.

    [Edit: I checked it again and mpeg-vcd program stream didn't keep the audio in sync no matter what I did.]


    Here is how I am testing sync...

    Extract ty file
    use vsplit to make element streams
    use a muxer (bbMpeg or TMPGenc) to mux the element streams into a program stream.
    open the program stream in zoom player and look for sync issues.

    there are some issues with zoom player (maybe all players). If I start the clip at the begining and don't jump around, the audio is in sync. If I jump around while it is playing, the audio is out of sync. If I stop the player, jump to a position later (or earlier) in the clip, and then press play, the audio stays in sync.

    This is all direct show based. I am using the latest version 2 beta of the elecard mpeg decoder and it appears to be using the moonlight odeo dekoda (which I assume is the moonlight audio decoder) for audio.


    Oh, and I have my SA tivo set to VBR also.
    Last edited by FreydNot; 09-28-2002 at 06:28 PM.

  6. #231
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    Originally posted by FreydNot
    The muxer in mpeg-vcr has given me bad sync. I say it failed.

    I have had sucess with bbMpeg (AKA avi2mpg2) when used as just a muxer. Its a bit tricky to get configured, but there are instructions here on the board.

    I thought I remembered some people having sucess using some basic unix tools too (mplex?).
    Ok. To be clear. Running tests with the CBR output of my SA Tivo and BBMpeg. it works like a charm. I get nice sync all the way through. But that isn't the problem. I suppose I should have made myself clear at the start. Using the VBR setting has the same good result, because the ES data itself is CBR.

    With output from VSplit and my DTivo... Using bbmpeg I am off by roughly 5 seconds about 20 seconds in... Not 5ms, but 5 full seconds. And it degrades from there until at the end I am off by... so much I can really tell at least 2-3 minutes. The end being 45-60 minutes into a clip. Very strange. As near as I can tell I have it configured right as it does work with the SATivo, but not with CBR or VBR for the DTivo. Nor does mpeg-2 versus DVD make any difference.

    --jdiner

  7. #232
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    Originally posted by rc3105
    mplex on mac & pc & in tivo, tmpgenc, bbmpeg,
    ele2pestriple

    all produce perfectly sync'd mpg here with tytool split streams from dtivo's running 2.5.01
    As I've mentioned before in this thread, I believe that for many people perceived sync issues are down to which codecs are being used by the mpeg player they use to view the program stream and transcode it.
    http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/sh...threadid=16645

  8. #233
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    I can't realy figure t out either... Why I am having so much trouble. What I am now producing claims to match the specs I have. BUT... and this is a big but... there is nothing in the specs that defines what to do if you are in a VBR setup. Everything I have references fixed bitrates.

    I can understand having things be off. I can understand having it be the codecs. But I have used 4 different players to try this and sync is maintained in all with some output, notably Tempgenc, and not in all with others, sadly my stuff.

    Now one reason some codec work and some don't seems to be tied to the issue of the SCR values. Which is why I am spending so much time on them. Many codecs, at M$ suggestion, ignore this value and use only picture timestamps. And again some do not. Beyond that I can't explain that much about what others are doing.

    And lastly perhaps I should just get a Mac... I can't believe the mess with the PC for all of this.

    To try and make it more clear I will write up a real explanation of what I have found and seen and where I think things are going wrong and why. That way everyone can try to get a feel for what I am talking about. Maybe I am just missing something...

    --jdiner

  9. #234
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    Originally posted by pbar
    As I've mentioned before in this thread, I believe that for many people perceived sync issues are down to which codecs are being used by the mpeg player they use to view the program stream and transcode it.
    http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/sh...threadid=16645
    I agree. Moonlight Cordless's codecs do a grand job of messing all that stuff up. Even some DiVX videos fall out of synch if I have their codecs loaded.

  10. #235
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    Originally posted by jdiner
    To try and make it more clear I will write up a real explanation of what I have found and seen and where I think things are going wrong and why. That way everyone can try to get a feel for what I am talking about. Maybe I am just missing something...
    Works for me; I vaguely remember my copy of the specs coming with VBR-related stuff...

  11. #236
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    Originally posted by zqfmbg
    Works for me; I vaguely remember my copy of the specs coming with VBR-related stuff...
    Well. Look at it, if it does, send the info my way...

    --jdiner

  12. #237
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    Well. I have now tried a host of commercial mux'ing programs. Just to see what the output would be. Almost universally nothing does VBR right. Infact the way in which most of them fail is quite related... I.e. the same pauses in the same place show up in many cases.

    One of the programs I got a demo to costs $3k. What a joke. Anyway, it only runs for 10 seconds worth of output but during that time things appear to be sync'ed. But in taking a look at their output things are kind of wierd. Thousands, literally, of 1024byte padding packets. Which make things needlessly huge. In this case almost double what everything else produces.

    In going through all of these programs only 1 actually appeared to be even close on output. So I am not alone in the problem area... I was hoping to get closer to a solution than that. But hey at least I have rule some more options...

    --jdiner

  13. #238
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    jdiner, whats the nam of this $3K program?
    Information wants to be free....

  14. #239
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    Originally posted by KRavEN
    jdiner, whats the nam of this $3K program?
    Ok. I tested:

    1- mpspsmd - The demo from Manzanita, it is a Windows Muxer... It only produced 10 seconds worth. Their price $995. NOTE: I suppose I should metion that while it was only 10 seconds long it appeared to be in sync. The real problem was that I just don't have enough to tell whether it is really on or not. It claims to produce 10 seconds worth of output but when it is played it is only about 6 seconds long?!!? The nature of a free demo I guess.

    2- MPEGRepair - From PixelTools. This one wanted to "rebuild" rather than just mux the output. But I did no with no changes. Their price $2,995.00. They also offer a TransMux program which is what I really wanted to try. But no one I know has this program. TransMux is $995 as well. Or you can get both for a major savings of $3,495.

    3- Then I tried the edit features of MyFlix_XE. While it does not have a direct mux'er in it. once again it will "dub" audio onto the video. Which is in essence mux'ing by a different name. Do be honest I don't remember what the list price of this one was to be..

    4- Then I tried Vitec's DVD toolbox v2.0. This one had it's own set of features including a mux'er. It produced a file almost exactly identical to BBMpeg's output. Which means that for me the sync was as smashed as earlier... List price $299.

    5- I then tried something mentioned here called XMuxer. But it would not install. Claimed it had already been installed and the eval period was over?!!? I don't remember ever having it installed but you just never know.


    All of my visual testing is being done with PowerDVD v2.5, which came with my Video card, and MS MediaPlayer. Everything produced by Tmpgenc, version 2.57.41.146, plays correctly in both out to the very end of the clips. Everything else is junk... Now the question is WHY is everything else junk.

    So on the free front I have tried BBMpeg, stdmux (from here way back when...), old mplex, MJpeg's mplex, another version of MPLex that was originally extended for the Mac, Tmpgenc, etc..

    --jdiner
    Last edited by jdiner; 09-30-2002 at 11:39 AM.

  15. #240
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    Out of curiosity, does anyone know what mplex attempts to do differently with -V specified? I haven't had a chance to wade through the source.

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