MUX'ing, VSplit, and MPG2 files.

[jdiner]

4- But what about menu's and my favorite tool _____ for DVDs... I personally couldn't care less about menus. I want playback. Plain and simple. There are other tools that can be used to create menus. From what I have read the ifoedit tool from derrow is working hard at accomplishing this.

If you want Maestro or Spruce up or DVDit or ... perhaps none of this will help you. But IMHO this is the only path to take that does not include re-encoding.

If you re-encode you will make it. Plain and simple. By doing so you get rid of the VFR and other DTV'isms. But you lose quality and you spend more time.

If you do it my way, or at least the way I am trying like mad to build, then you will get the same quality as when you play from your DTivo but you might just have to give up fancy menu's etc...

5- Why build VOB's first... people can see where things are going. So they can test it and see if I am doing everything right. So they can try the various title, chapter, menu building tools to see what works best and we can lay down a path to make it slick for the masses as possible.

That might just mean getting some direct help from Derrow, olaf_sc, or people like them that are DVD wizards to add special hooks in my tools or theirs to get something that can be used as easily as possible to get the most possible etc... But that takes time. And the sooner we know the sooner we get there...

6- What about the hole issue people keep talking about... It is well known to me. I posted it first. Said it would not do it. I know why. I know what to do to fix it. But right now I wanted to make sure that the packed output with so little padding was working. Once that is done, and we seem to be there, we move on.

What is next are the special caese. The reset'ing PTS values. And the "holes" in the data. Both need to be addressed. My best guess is it will take me about 4 hours for each and once all is known about 50 lines of C source to have both problems solved.

So it is coming, but I have tried to be clear that I am doing this 1 step at a time.

7- Editing... This is without a doubt on the list of things to do. I want this one personally very badly! I intend to work on this while others are working on checling tools to do menu's, titles, etc...

I have put a great deal of thought into what is going on and hope that at some point soon it will be time to start this.

The mux'er has been built to deal with editing quite nicely. The plain old splitting engine can do nothing with it because of VBR and the fact that the audio and video have different starting clock values.

Hope this helps to clarify why I "wasted" so much time on the mux'er and where I plan to go next.

--jdiner

[jdiner]

Wow. Posting here must have medicinal value. My headache is nearly gone. Of course the 4 advil might have something to do with it, but my vote is for the forum...

--jdiner

[zqfmbg]

And I was going to say "Go get some rest already!"

Anyway, I've noticed streams that tend to go horribly out of sync if you let stuff free-run (i.e. Space Ghost from Cartoon Planet) are just great with the latest mux code. I wasn't sure if I was seeing audio just a bit ahead of video but there really isn't any way for me to tell at the moment, besides going to MTV...

[snoopy]

Get some rest already

Thanks for being such a good sport with all of us demanding leachers. Have a fantastic night/day etc!

[jdiner]

Nah... The pain killers I took will make sleep a difficult commodity to come by tonight.

I figure out the rest of the VOB stuff. It is a piece of cake.

Now while what I have is a VOB file in layout the vob spefic entries are empty. Something has to be used on them. ifoedit? Anyone know?

That was surprisingly easy to add. I figure I will add an option to not do them as they expand the output size needlessly if you are not going to a VOB and then we can pretty much consider the VOB stuff done. Always nice when things work out quickly.

--jdiner

[jdiner]

Ok. Keep in mind that I have never used it or seen it directly.

But I was just thinking about PlayItAgainSam. It is a Tivo based interface for the editing of streams. You use your remote and your TV and you edit the streams visually. Then the next time you play the stream you get only the parts you wanted.

Or at least this is what the docs seem to indicate.

However, currently using is makes it so that my programs see major holes everywhere and don't extract nicely at all.

But I was thinking about that. How many here would like to see editing as part of all of this done that way instead of as a program on the PC/Mac/Unix machine you download things to.

It would mean some major changes to it but all in call could be very very nice. It would depend on how easy PlayItAgainSam is to really use?!!? What I was thinking was rather than having it make real changes to the MFS instead it would save to a place on the /var/ drive (since it is writable) a list of "edits". Then using TyTool to extract and mux and "edit" during download (all options at that point) you would get a single mux'ed file that had the editing on it... What do you all think?

So anyone ever used it? And what do you peoples think? Client side editing or Tivo side?

--jdiner

[jdiner]

Ok. I was thinking about why tmpgenc has as much success as it does with Dtivo output and here is what I am thinking. The mux'er in tmpgenc, as long as no cutting takes place, seems to work about 80% of the time. I was wondering why so I took a look. I believe I know what data they are looking at and that it can indeed be used to mux and get close. But it is not perfect... It is nowhere near as good as what we have right now. Why you might ask?

There is another time value in the file. It deals with GOPs themselves and the pictures within it. This value by no means has a good granularity, instead of in miliseconds it appears to be in seconds at it's finest. But it has a pretty close gap on that second boundry.

So you can use it figure out what is supposed to be "in" a seconds worth of video. It works. It really does. But it means that within each second, some times a little more and sometimes a little less, you "float" back forth around sync. All in all not a bad technique but a pain the butt to figure out. And I could still be wrong.

I am not sure that is what they are doing but it is the last of what I can "figure" they are doing. There is just no further data that could be being used. And using it would help fix "bad" Elementary Streams and tmpgenc definately seems to be doing that.

--jdiner

[jdiner]

I would like to verify my stuff. But I need to know something about the tools people have been using todate.

The "dvd output" from bbmpeg. Are any of you using it and if so with what dvd tools?

What tools are people using, besides spruce up, for dealing with make dvds.

More specifically I am looking for something that will make a VOB file I can directly access.

I am open to any suggestions.

--jdiner

[FreydNot]

Originally posted by jdiner
Ok. Keep in mind that I have never used it or seen it directly.

But I was just thinking about PlayItAgainSam. It is a Tivo based interface for the editing of streams. You use your remote and your TV and you edit the streams visually. Then the next time you play the stream you get only the parts you wanted.

The last time I looked at PlayItAgainSam, I get the feeling it won't work on my 3.0 Tivo. As a concept, its interesting though. There is something to be said about doing the edits using the already stored source device. However, there is also something to be said for leaving the Tivo free for family use while editing on the computer.

For me, I would go for whatever is easiest and/or most practical.

[FreydNot]

Originally posted by jdiner
I would like to verify my stuff. But I need to know something about the tools people have been using todate.

The "dvd output" from bbmpeg. Are any of you using it and if so with what dvd tools?

What tools are people using, besides spruce up, for dealing with make dvds.

More specifically I am looking for something that will make a VOB file I can directly access.

I haven't tried the DVD output from bbMpeg. In fact, I haven't used anything that outputs VOB files at all. Most of the time I've been working in DVD Maestro.

Lately I've been trying out the new IFOedit's Create DVD mode. I suppose that creates VOB files.

[IWantMyDTV]

Josh,

I know that this is a soft spot for you right now because of certain "forces" within the community attempting to rush you, but is the release of your code still a part of your project plan?

[SirTrini]

It doesn't seem like you could get that accurate cut points on the DTivo.

[laserfan]

To jdiner:

If I understand the PlayItSam concept (edit on the Tivo) correctly; not only would editing be in a relatively comfortable environment (one's sofa and the Tivo remote!) but it would theoretically reduce the time it takes to export/transport the file(s) to the PC. Fine, great even. But my take at this point is that it is a distraction--if you need a distraction, well, fine, but I might have guessed you would want to get some kind of a new release out-the-door that would get all of <us> off your back for a while at least...

Re: DVD tools, I have only ever used SpruceUp to produce, and sometimes Nero to burn. I have Maestro in reserve--my sense is that many others here use these as they are readily available for "free".

But I am 100% with you that I don't want to monkey w/Menus at all. I just want to get my programs to DVD and maybe have chapter markers for my Twilight Zone/Austin City Limits discs. That's all.

You know what you're doing and what you want to achieve. I'm not sure why you're as "invitational" as you are re: getting feedback but...well, you should do what gives you satisfaction. As Groucho Marx once said when asked if he was enjoying himself, "I always enjoy myself; it's others I have trouble enjoying!" So do what you want, when you want to do it.

[keither]

Josh asked:

But I was thinking about that. How many here would like to see editing as part of all of this done that way instead of as a program on the PC/Mac/Unix machine you download things to.

I'd 100% request that editing NOT be done on the Tivo. I'd prefer to work on video at my PC.

I don't mind waiting for the TYStream to extract if I can work with muxing and splitting and editing on a machine that's 10x or more faster than the Tivo.

Plus, I think on a PC it's a lot easier to get repeatable results, especially down to the frame level. With the Tivo, isolating individual frames seems difficult at best. What I've found is that "standalone" solutions (CD recorders, video recorders, etc.) are never as full-featured or easy to use for detail work as a PC based solution.

I'm also trying to keep my Tivo as "unedited" as possible. All I do is load network drivers and noscramble. Adding in a whole bunch of other software that has to run on my Tivo doesn't appeal to me in the slightest.

[Jellybean]

Originally posted by jdiner

What tools are people using, besides spruce up, for dealing with make dvds.

More specifically I am looking for something that will make a VOB file I can directly access.

I am open to any suggestions.

--jdiner

I use IFOedit to create a .VOB. Click on Dvd Auther->Author New DVD and it muxs 1 set of m2a and m2v files to 1 VOB. That file is playable via the Software DVD players on the PC. If you want to play it on a hardware player there is another step or two.

JB