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Thread: MUX'ing, VSplit, and MPG2 files... #2!

  1. #46
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    Re: vsplit -d switch for SVCD

    Originally posted by snoopy
    Most older DVD players will play "regular" VCD's comprised of mpeg1 level encoding as opposed to mpeg2. The information is correct according to all the information I have read recently. I would like to create VCD's instead of SVCD's obtained by using the -d switch in vsplit. Is there any plans for such an option so that the disk will play in almost any machine until I can afford an expensive DVD burner?
    To get an MPEG-1 VCD File, you'll have to transcode the output
    of the Mux or take the elementary streams and transcode those.

    The DirecTiVo creates MPEG-2 files. The -d just says to MUX with
    a specific sector size and add a SVCD header. There is no way
    of muxing to VCD.

    VCD Standard is MPEG-1, 1150kbps
    SVCD Standard is MPEG-2, 2520kbps (althought i can pretty much
    be anything).

    Bottom line : You have to transcode to get MPEG-1 or you can
    use a header trick but that doesn't work on all players.

    -Pr.

  2. #47
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    Re: Re: vsplit -d switch for SVCD

    Originally posted by Pr.Sinister
    To get an MPEG-1 VCD File, you'll have to transcode the output
    of the Mux or take the elementary streams and transcode those.

    The DirecTiVo creates MPEG-2 files. The -d just says to MUX with
    a specific sector size and add a SVCD header. There is no way
    of muxing to VCD.

    VCD Standard is MPEG-1, 1150kbps
    SVCD Standard is MPEG-2, 2520kbps (althought i can pretty much
    be anything).

    Bottom line : You have to transcode to get MPEG-1 or you can
    use a header trick but that doesn't work on all players.

    -Pr.
    What would you use to accomplish this "transcoding" process to MPEG-1 VCD Standard? I probably won't attempt the header trick until I get a real one to work properly. Thanks.

  3. #48
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    What's the point?

    Bottom line : You have to transcode to get MPEG-1 or you can
    Wouldn't the point of doing VCD be to include more on the cd. If you just trick the player into thinking it's playing a VCD when it's actually playing an SVCD, you don't accomplish any space savings?

    Am I just missing something here?

  4. #49
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    Mpeg1 from Mpeg2

    Originally posted by tlphipps
    Wouldn't the point of doing VCD be to include more on the cd. If you just trick the player into thinking it's playing a VCD when it's actually playing an SVCD, you don't accomplish any space savings?

    Am I just missing something here?
    The point would be to allow an older DVD to play the file. By "older", I mean one that does not play SVCD's.


    Does anyone know what program I can use to "transcode" the mpeg2 file to be mpeg1 ? I try TMPEnc but I don't understand it well enough to set it to do that. What gives

  5. #50
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    Re: vsplit -d switch for SVCD

    Originally posted by snoopy
    Most older DVD players will play "regular" VCD's comprised of mpeg1 level encoding as opposed to mpeg2. The information is correct according to all the information I have read recently. I would like to create VCD's instead of SVCD's obtained by using the -d switch in vsplit. Is there any plans for such an option so that the disk will play in almost any machine until I can afford an expensive DVD burner?
    They are 2 completely different thing. I would have to build and encoder and a decoder (encoder for mpeg-1 and decoder for mpeg-2) into the system to make it happen.

    For me this is never going to happen. I don't want it. No one else that knew what was going on would either. It is a waste of time.

    A waste of time because there are already better tools out there that do this. Going back to mpeg-1 is a re-encode step. You lose quality. You have drop the bit rate massively from what it is, and so you lose quality massively.

    Go to wal-mart. Get out your wallet and buy a $49 apex. My friend just did and it will play stuff from the DTivo/SATivo wonderfully.

    --jdiner

  6. #51
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    Re: Re: vsplit -d switch for SVCD

    Originally posted by Pr.Sinister
    Bottom line : You have to transcode to get MPEG-1 or you can
    use a header trick but that doesn't work on all players.
    There is honestly no header trick that will work for 99% of the players. The encoding of mpeg-2 is different at the encoding layer than mpeg-1. I could mux to mpeg-1 headers but nothing would play. Because nothing is as it should be...

    It is like putting sand in shoe boxes and claiming the sand is now shoes. Not hardly...

    --jdiner

  7. #52
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    Re: Mpeg1 from Mpeg2

    Originally posted by snoopy
    The point would be to allow an older DVD to play the file. By "older", I mean one that does not play SVCD's.

    Does anyone know what program I can use to "transcode" the mpeg2 file to be mpeg1 ? I try TMPEnc but I don't understand it well enough to set it to do that. What gives
    We should have just started here. A player that will not play SVCDs does not have the mpeg-2 system built in such a way to accept generic mpeg-2 files. They must match the DVD specs perfectly. These players also tend to have problems with slightly non-standard DVDs.

    You have to convert, i.e. transcode, from mpeg-2 to mpeg-1. Download a demo copy of tmpgenc. It does this and has a nice newbie wizard interface. The demo used to be good for 30 days no idea now. Once you try it if you like it support them and buy it.

    But for now let's consider the topic closed. It has nothing to do with mux'ing and dealing with mux'ed files. It is about VCD and that has nothing to do with what is going on in here. Make another thread...

    --jdiner

  8. #53
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    22

    Tested 1m on UK SA 2.5.5 . Looks good. Sync Good
    Some noise on cut ! But good sync

    A

  9. #54
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    Originally posted by alunj
    Tested 1m on UK SA 2.5.5 . Looks good. Sync Good
    Some noise on cut ! But good sync
    Yeah. There will be. Always unless it is a perfect GOP cut but that means re-ordering frames and there is no garantee that will work right either. How much noise all depends on nature of the stream.

    The only other way to get rid of the noise is to re-encode a few frames. And while that is possible not something I plan to do as what is there is good enough for me.

    --jdiner

  10. #55
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    Sep 2002
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    Originally posted by jdiner
    Yeah. There will be. Always unless it is a perfect GOP cut but that means re-ordering frames and there is no garantee that will work right either. How much noise all depends on nature of the stream.

    The only other way to get rid of the noise is to re-encode a few frames. And while that is possible not something I plan to do as what is there is good enough for me.

    --jdiner
    One other way to fix that is to re-encode that last frame before the cut and then the first frame after the cut to ramp the audio down to silence and then back up to the normal sound.

    But now re-reading you post I think that is what you said.

    Rowan

  11. #56
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    May 2002
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    Originally posted by jdiner

    The only other way to get rid of the noise is to re-encode a few frames. And while that is possible not something I plan to do as what is there is good enough for me.

    --jdiner
    Out of curiousity, are there any tools that can do the re-encoding on a range where the cut is going to be committed? I doubt the noise will bother me but my curiousity ie piqued. <grin>

    Skorous

  12. #57
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    Re: Re: Re: vsplit -d switch for SVCD

    Originally posted by snoopy
    What would you use to accomplish this "transcoding" process to MPEG-1 VCD Standard? I probably won't attempt the header trick until I get a real one to work properly. Thanks.
    In TMPGEnc, just go into the Project Wizard and choose
    NTSC under Video-CD

    Click Next, Drag & Drop or use the file browser to add
    your m2v and m2a files and the other steps should all be
    Next, next, next, etc... very easy... Depending on your CPU
    power, i could take anywhere from 30mins to 7 hours..

    hehehe

    -Pr.

  13. #58
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    Originally posted by skorous
    Out of curiousity, are there any tools that can do the re-encoding on a range where the cut is going to be committed? I doubt the noise will bother me but my curiousity ie piqued. <grin>
    The answer is "yes and no"... Fundamentally it is just an MPEG-2 encoder that is needed. But you need to get the uncompressed frames and then encode only a few frames.

    What you would do is turn them into I-frames so that there is no prediction. This will make them substantially bigger. But it will give you a perfect cut.

    --jdiner

  14. #59
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    Ok. I supose I should have elaborated on why I consider what I have "enough".

    Most of what I am interested in is TV shows. The ones I have all fade to black over half dozen frames and then fade back in from black over a half dozen.

    I cut from the end of the black fade out, to the start of the black fade in, and bingo, the noise video wise is almost none existant. This will not always be possible. But by and large it will work.

    However to do it at that level is something of a challenge for the GUI needed to pull it all off.

    --jdiner

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    54
    re: powerdvd/windvd playback oddness with 'holes'. I got bored and decided to play with the output of 1m on my dvd players, and both of them seem to not care whether the hole was 4 frames or 4 seconds, they just play the part of the stream they do have.

    Afreey 2060 ld and the el cheapo apex from walmart.

    They exhibit the tearing I'd expect from the cutting on non gop boundaries, but as long as it doesn't completely puke, I don't especially care.

    I'm trying to see what happens when I fast forward or rewind over the gap, but it's pretty hard to tell when it's 5 seconds from the beginning. I'll test this more when we can define our own cuts.

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