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Thread: Mfs_Ftp: extract, archive, restore & transfer recordings

  1. #166
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    Mar 2002
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    many many MANY moons ago I looked into direct mpeg / vob extraction. (before this was released actually) works great, 'bout 700k/sec. the bottleneck being the tivo doesn't have a lot of horsepower & ty->mpg is more than just adding header info

    2 main problems

    most folks wanting mpg plan to burn dvd or vcd - exporting mpg directly opens a pandora's box of support / format questions (even as mpg tivo video is still kinda wacky)

    mplayer, XBMP, XBMC & mythtivo allready play ty and there's a ms mediaplayer directshow filter in the works. why burden the tivo with the extra load when there are plenty of ty enabled apps???


    --
    Riley
    ---
    Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat all day and drink beer

  2. #167
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    Originally posted by Dank
    Why are you against this seemingly simple feature??
    "seemingly" is the operative word. I'm not trying to belittle your idea but I have followed the development of a lot of these projects. I am no developer myself but have worked around them enough to know that what seems simple can sometimes require a great deal of effort to materialize.

    MFS_FTP was designed to be an extraction and insertion tool but not a conversion tool. There are already other hacks to do that well so there's no point in "re-inventing the weel". It would be better to create a script that can FTP a file down to a PC from a mfs_ftp tivo server and then use tytool to convert it to mpg all in one motion. That can be done in a batch file or written in VB.

    BTW, the best procedure I have found for getting a recording to a DVD is here:

    http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/at...&postid=102993

    Written by DDB user Just4Fun

    It works for all recordings that are not "broken" (there are some recordings that have problems whereby the Tivo can still play them but nothing else will play or convert them properly).

    ABTW, the Tivo does not record dvd compliant mpg streams but there are hacks for that too. Without these hacks, the Tivo makes mpg streams that will play properly on a lot of new DVD players but some older ones are screwey.
    Last edited by cojonesdetoro; 10-13-2003 at 03:30 PM.

  3. #168
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    Originally posted by cojonesdetoro
    "seemingly" is the operative word.
    Yes, and since the developer has said it isn't actually as simple as I thought, then I understand why it isn't in product. Oh well, it would have been nice.
    I'm not trying to belittle your idea but I have followed the development of a lot of these projects. I am no developer myself but have worked around them enough to know that what seems simple can sometimes require a great deal of effort to materialize.

    MFS_FTP was designed to be an extraction and insertion tool but not a conversion tool. There are already other hacks to do that well so there's no point in "re-inventing the weel". It would be better to create a script that can FTP a file down to a PC from a mfs_ftp tivo server and then use tytool to convert it to mpg all in one motion. That can be done in a batch file or written in VB.
    Actually, you are trying to belittle my idea... You are saying there is no use for it, because there is other software for extraction, when the whole point of my idea is the need for no tivocentric software on the PC. So saying "other conversion tools do this" is 100% misguided, because my whole goal is making a system that needs no clientside conversion tools. That means no VB scripts, no TyTool batches, nothing other than a standard FTP client and standard DVD software.

    I know how to write batches, I know how to convert the FTP'd TY to MPEG, I know how to write software to automate that process. I am a programmer by profession. But if I have to write clientside software or scripts, then it isn't what I'm looking for here. Makes sense? I understand that YOU don't see the need in this, and YOU want mfs_ftp to just move files between your tivos, but that doesn't mean other people can't use the tool for other purposes.

    But since rc3105 says its too much drain on the TiVo, then I guess it can't be done. I'll accept a technical rationale, but you can't convince me that nobody wants the feature that I want, because I know at least one person who wants it...

  4. #169
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    it's perfectly doable, 700k/sec is still better than realtime for most recordings. I just don't have any compelling reason to release / support it

    for the do-it-yourselfer, 1.2.9f, line 508 is

    exec $info(path)/mfs_stream -s $fsid >@$info(dc) 2>/dev/null

    port typrocess from TyStudio to the tivo and change line 508 to something like this

    exec $info(path)/mfs_stream -s $fsid 2>/dev/null | typrocess -pipe -mplex { -V -f 3 } -demux >@$info(dc) 2>/dev/null

    don't think that syntax is quite right but you get the generall idea, pipe from mfs_stream into typrocess & then from typrocess out the ftp data channel


    --
    Riley
    ---
    Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat all day and drink beer

  5. #170
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    Originally posted by Dank
    I know how to write batches, I know how to convert the FTP'd TY to MPEG, I know how to write software to automate
    Well... good for you. I didn't write anothing about it not being useful. I merely stated that mfs_ftp was not designed with that in mind whereas other tools are more evolved along those lines. I think that's a fair statement. I'm sorry that you found my response insulting. I wasn't trying to "talk down" to you but I thought I was dealing with a newb. So, seriously, I apologize if I ruffled any feathers.

    Riley seems to have given you a pretty good answer. Piping it the way he shows looks like it would work. You'd just have to make sure you name the file with an mpg extension.. but I'm sure you already knew that. If you manage the CPU usage, the Tivo may even be usable while doing all this work. Let us know how it goes.

    BTW, if you have an FTP client that can output to <stdout> like wget or curl you can pipe it right at the client side without having to have an intermediary file. That would be easier than porting typprocess to the Tivo.

    maybe something like:

    wget ftp://tivo:3105/ty/recording -o - | typrocess ... > mpegfile

    (not sure of syntax here, of course)

    I use a technique like this to transfer recordings between tivos using my linux box as an intermediary with a command like this:


    curl --options get tivo1 | cur --options put tivo2


    the bytes come into the linux box from tivo1 and make a hairpin turn (through a buffer) to tivo2. Fun stuff. It... mostly works. :-/
    I've been able to automate the batch transfer of many recordings without the need of intermediate disk space. It still craps out once in a while and I haven't figured out why.


    This should even work under cygwin/windows


    AsI stated in earlier threads. FXP would be even better but I could never get it working right. This technique let's me watch the transfer and detect an error which can trigger an automated response (restart mfs_ftp, retry copy, delete partial file, etc.)

  6. #171
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    Aug 2001
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    Would there happen to be any work underway to get mfs_ftp to work with ftpfs? I would like to mount my tivo mfs_ftp as a drive on my linux box that I am using for an ftp server. It would allow for simpler sharing of ty files over the internet with the security of my linux Proftp server.

    If there is any other way to add security to MFS FTP, I would appreciate ant tips from the pros.

    Milhouse.

  7. #172
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    I think more securtiy for mfs_ftp was in rc3105's to do's that he listed earlier in the thread.

  8. #173
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    Originally posted by milhouse
    sharing of ty files over the internet with the security of my linux Proftp server.
    Also remember that mfs_ftp is a single threaded app. You have to make sure that two people don't try to get a recording at once. Most FTP servers are tunable in this way so I'm sure ProFTP can accomodate this.

    I like the idea of sharing directly from the Tivo. THe alternative is to copy the tmf files to your PC and using that edonkey program some guys are using to share shows. It creates a lot of storage demands. The advantage of Edonkey/PC is that more than one recording can be shared at once and the recording can be dloaded from multiple sources if more than one person is sharing the same tmf file.

  9. #174
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    Sep 2003
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    Re: Problems installing 129f with tar on the Tivo

    Originally posted by CptKirk
    I just tried to install v129f on the Tivo and got the following errors.
    ...
    tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors
    Don't worry about those errors... It installed. Everyone gets those.
    Just try it out and verify that its working; if it isn't then ask again.

  10. #175
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    May 2002
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    West Hartford CT
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    Re: mfs_ftp: easy extract / insert via ftp protocols

    Originally posted by rc3105

    if savepath.txt is in the directory with tmf2ty_cfg.exe the first line of the file is used as the output path. these are tcl paths so use forward slashes like so

    x:/extracts/ - d:/my_recordings/ - v:/video_files/

    RC;

    having troublegetting path to change to my d:/extracts/ line specified in the savepath.txt that resides in the same directory as the .exe


    it says it can't create the path or doesn't exist. Yet it does create it on c: however I don't have enough room for the file to be extracted there, and it fails about 3/4 the way through.

    it just seems to ignore my savepath.txt file.
    ~Hi8

    (4) Hughes SD DVR40
    (1) Hughes HR10-250
    (2) xbmc XBOX X2 & xbit

  11. #176
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    Re: Re: mfs_ftp: easy extract / insert via ftp protocols

    Originally posted by Hi8
    RC;

    having troublegetting path to change to my d:/extracts/ line specified in the savepath.txt that resides in the same directory as the .exe


    it says it can't create the path or doesn't exist. Yet it does create it on c: however I don't have enough room for the file to be extracted there, and it fails about 3/4 the way through.

    it just seems to ignore my savepath.txt file.
    I had this issue as well.

    put the savepath.txt file in the same folder that you have the TMF file in, NOT where the EXE file is.

    So for all my TMF folders, I have the same savepath.txt file there.

    It will create a folder with the name of the show under the path specified in your savepath.txt file

    my savepath.txt file is

    e:/tivo/video/ty

    I created it on the tivo with JOE and then ftp'd it down to my computer, because i didn't have a copy of dos2unix.exe handy.

    HTH

  12. #177
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    Sep 2001
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    69

    stream upload speed

    I had the same sluggish upload performance that others had reported earlier in this thread. It was taking 40 min to insert a 30 min show.

    The fix was: (As previously mentioned)

    runideturbo=false

    For example: (Make sure of the parms, and the reboot)

    bash-2.02# bootpage -p /dev/hda
    root=/dev/hda7
    bash-2.02# bootpage -P 'root=/dev/hda7 runideturbo=false' /dev/hda
    bash-2.02# bootpage -p /dev/hda
    root=/dev/hda7 runideturbo=false
    bash-2.02# reboot

    Now it can insert a 30 min show in 10 min.

  13. #178
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    A good Linux CLI FTP client for MFS_FTP

    I have found that lftp (http://lftp.yar.ru/) may be the best CLI FTP client for linux to use with MFS FTP. It uses FXP which facilitates direct tivo-to-tivo transfers. It also has nice scripting and bandwidth throttling features.

    It also has a workaround that stymies other FXP clients. Since MFS_FTP is single threaded, I think you can't "talk" to it while it's doing an FXP transfer. This means you can't get stats to see how fast the transfer is going. LFTP has an option to turn off stat checking. You also have the option of doin tivo-to-tivo transfer using the LFTP client as a hairpin (no local storage of files needed). It seems to transfer much more slowly this way but you can monitor progress.

    EDIT: of course, you can still tail -f /var/mfs_ftp/port.3105.log to view progress so there's not real reason not to use fxp

    .


    Here's a sample script of the syntax I've used:


    script listing:

    open tivo2 -p 3105
    set ftp:use-stat false
    cd tmf
    get "{Beer, Hot Chix and Baby Oil}{1970-01-01}{}{11.35 PM Tue Sep 09, 2003}{PPVP}.tmf" -o ftp://tivo:3105/tmf/
    set cmd:move-background false
    wait all
    quit

    called with:

    lftp -f tempftpscript.txt


    Note: The two tivos I have resolve to 'tivo' and 'tivo2'. Substitute your names or IP addresses for those in the script.


    EDIT: lftp is also available for cygwin so it may be the best CLI FTP client for Windows and MFS_FTP as well.

    http://cygwin.com/cgi-bin2/package-c....6-1&grep=lftp

    (I haven't tried it.)
    Last edited by cojonesdetoro; 10-16-2003 at 07:51 PM.

  14. #179
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    Jul 2003
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    Originally posted by philhu
    Does the newest mfs_ftp work with Series 1 standalones with 16meg? But loaded with 2 120g HD's?

    I've tried a few versions. It crashes the tivo while trying to enumerate the list of programs......
    I have an unsubbed SA1 16MB and it's pretty stable. In fact, I've seen more stability issues with tivoweb. Maybe you've got a corrupt DB? Riley suggested that mfs_check program earlier. He says it's mostly harmless but I found that it shuts down one of the main tivo programs and you have to reboot after using it.

    Edit: Did you find any messages in /var/mfs_ftp/port3105.log?
    Last edited by cojonesdetoro; 10-17-2003 at 11:40 AM.

  15. #180
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    Dec 2001
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    94
    Just to add a little perspective to the "why can't mfs_ftp generate clean mpeg" question, I've been using mfs_ftp since 1.2.5 (and in fact am still using that version) and was one of the alpha tresters for tystudio. I think some here would not believe the amount of work that went into tystudio to get it to the point of being usable (and I was just testing it, not developing it), and it was (maybe still is) imperfect when I lost track of the project.

    The version I have (and I think it's been pretty much static since Olaf went travelling), does a pretty good job of converting .TY files to MPEG, using the resources of a regular PC, but still doesn't (didn't) handle AV sync correctly in cuts.

    So for material requiring editing (eg removing commercials), I still do an analog capture and edit and re-encode the resulting AVI files.

    For material requiring only start and end trimming (eg uninterrupted movies), here's my procedure:

    Extract from tivo using mfs_tools v1.2.5

    Convert the TMF file to TY using a version of tmf.exe that Riley whipped up for me way back. It puts the result into X:\extract (hardcoded path), but subst lets me manufacture an X: drive if my PC doesn't already have one.

    Convert to MPEG with TyStudio 0.5.0. Trim only the start and end. Bounce the end point 8 clicks beyond where I want the actual cut and I'll ususally get all the program material. (It has trouble stopping where I tell it, so the extra margin is necessary.)

    remux the MPG file with TMpegEnc. This seems to reduce problems down the line.

    Simple demux, again with TMpegEnc

    Pull the audio into my general editor, look at the audio waveform by eyeball. Usually requires 2X or 3X amplification to achieve anything approaching correct recording levels. Apparently the tivo amps up audio more than my DVD playback card and TV together can. Maybe this is a way to shave bandwidth?

    Recompress the amplified audio to MPA (time consuming, but it works. Leave it at 48 kHz to avoid any further degradation from resampling.

    Remux the video with the new MPA file.

    Done!

    Sounds like a lot of handling, and it is, but I can do it faster than real time end to end... if I watch 1 movie while I work on the next, I can keep the TV running continuously as long as I can stay awake. And I'm using 1.5 gHz class PCs.

    Comment:

    I imagine the current tools are in some way better than the ones I've been using, or they wouldn't still be in flux. But I stopped uograding when things became workable and reliable. First rule of software: if it's not too badly broken, don't fix it any more.

    2nd Comment: Can y'all imagine the CPU drain on the poor little tivo if it had to do all that work itself, to spare the much bigger/faster PCs the job of post processing?

    3rd Comment:

    Many thanks to:

    Surgeon for 25Xtreme (and to all the people who made the pieces that went into it),

    Kraven for his update (and those who made the bits that went into *it*),

    Riley for mfs_ftp

    Olaf and the gang for TyStudio (I hope the bugs eventually get worked out, but I use it almost every day anyway)

    I love my Tivo, but I love it 10 times as much with tivoweb, the extraction tools, and mfs_ftp.

    Riley's my HERO! (He, if we can single out any one person, made extraction work for me. After all, for me, it's not the tinkering that's fun, but getting results.)

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