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Thread: TyTool6, VOB AND DVD extras...

  1. #1
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    TyTool6, VOB AND DVD extras...

    Alright. A new thread. This one is to replace the existing TyTool #5 thread. Specifically it is going to be about the DVD tools and ways to do this better.

    The same rules apply. Be Nice, Be Sweet to each other, at the very least Be Courteous or get out and stay out. As mentioned before I am going to police this thread and anything that is a "problem" post is gone. Don't like it, post your comments elsewhere.

    Alright. So let's get on with it.

    --jdiner

  2. #2
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    Alright. As promised here are my comments on what I did to get a multi-show DVD with perfect sync through out.

    I used all my own stuff with one, simple and yet major exception...

    I am trying to make that clear because I don't want to keep rehashing the same thing over and over and over. Again everything here is assumed to be mine unless clearly marked otherwise. So here we go... the details:

    1- I enhanced the mux'er in Vsplit/TyTool to produce the appropriate pair of packets for the VOB structure, rather than the current MPEG-2 structure. Current these packets are created with the correct header but are completely empty content wise.

    So what is produced is an MPEG program stream in VOB format that is not yet valid. Sounds bad right? But bear with me this was done on purpose.

    So bottom line what this means at this point is that we have something that never needs to be remux'ed. It is "done" in terms of byte alignments and other related issues.

    2- I enhanced the mux'er further to produce seperate files. 1 for each segment between the cuts. So if you cut, lead-in, and 2 sets of commercials in the middle, and lead-out on a show like this:

    *cut-LeadIn* seg *cut-Com1* seg *cut-Com1* seg *cut-LeadOut*

    You will get 3 output mpeg files. Each stored away with a nice brand new shiny name to seperate them and make it clear what they were.

    3- I then added support, in the right way, for a fixed up version of ifogen and tocgen.

    These program are open source code for the filling in of the blank/empty VOB packets produced now in step #1.

    A nice new GUI element was added to support the process. You can tell where it was going from before but I will try to explain the process again at the end of this message.

    But here the empty-vob segments that have been created by the above steps are turned into a single "file set". A bunch of vobs and the ifo/bup files to create a complete vob.

    Now I take no credit at all for the ifogen/tocgen programs. All I did was port them to win32, clean up some things that were just a little short sighted, make then a library, and streamline the calling mechanism with a GUI.

    But basically each segment from above becomes a chapter. Making for reasonable navigation etc...

    There is no menu support in this, sorry. I know nowhere near enough to get menu support going. Not going to either. Surely we can search and find some tools (ifoedit?) that can load and deal with vobs to add extra things like that?!!?

    4- Burned it out as a UDF1.02 format on my DVD-RW drive and plopped it into my Apex. Worked like a champ.

    However the 1.05 format failed to even register as a disk. Not sure what the most compatible formats really are.


    So the process will be:
    - Download the TyStream file.
    - Make the key file.
    - Cut the commercials unwanted bits.
    - Mux the file(s) to a vob.
    - Pick the selected shows for the disk image and process to a "file set". (What is the right term for that set of files anyway?
    - Load the DVD creation tool (nero or some other), pick the directory created by the tool, and burn.

    That is the long and short of it.

    Again that is going to leave you without menu's for those that love that kind of thing. But the great news is that I have run a number of tests and audio-video sync don't drift for me.

    Now this is not a clean up to the point where those suffering current audio distress will be happy. This is not about DD5.1 or whatever. It is about taking the mainstream of what works now to the next stage. I will be coming back to the rest of it when the time is right.

    --jdiner

  3. #3
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    Now some of you might ask when does this ambrosia ship. Where can you get it?

    At the moment nowhere. Thanks to the open source wrangling that has gone on here I am being slowed by it a bit. I am working over the ifo/toc-gen sources right now and I need to get them to where I like them and to make sure that nothing has violated anyones rights. I am going to have to make sure that everything is completely sterile to try and stop any more fights.

    So for now there are no beta testers for this. I am the only one with a copy and it will stay that way for a bit longer. When the release is really I will be posting the changes and source to ifo/toc-gen as require by the liscence and binary versions of my own programs.

    Sorry. But after the constant wrangling here it is the only reasonable approach to take.

    --jdiner

  4. #4
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    Further I opened a dialog with olaf_sc about the menus and chapters of a DVD and the facilities of the ifo/toc-gen tools.

    He indicated an interest in helping with the furthering of these tools as he seems to know a great deal about the format and what would need to be done. But he also said that he is busy with his own tools and was uncertain of his time commitments.

    Hopefully when we get to that point the masses here can convince him to get involved reguardless of the problems he and I have had in the past over our points of view.

    Just something to keep in mind.

    --jdiner

  5. #5
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    Oh and I asked this before but I would love to get some more information. Is there a compatible format that plays in every player? Or at least most players. I found a small window that works for my DVD player... But it took a while and a number of bad burns.

    In my case all that was needed to change to get it work was the UDF format. But then I took the disk to the local Circuit City and tried it there and found that it works in some players, seemed to be the older ones, but the latest Sony's and JVC's failed on the disk. But the 1.05 version, at least I think that was what Nero was creating, worked just fine...

    Which is very frustrating. For those that are creating disks to pass around or at least to get the most playability on the most platforms I would love to hear from so you so that we can get this all tuned to work in the most possible cases.

    --jdiner

  6. #6
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    Well I can only speak for myself, but I was hoping for fully functional MPEGs coming out of the GOPEditor before you even wrangled with authoring tools. Reason being, there are tons of authoring tools already, but the well hashed/bashed audio and temporal errors prevent vplit generated files from working with them cleanly.

    Just my .02 cents.
    SpongeBob is not a contraceptive - Bart S.
    A tabloid, is that one of those really strong mints? - Homer S.

  7. #7
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    I see you finally decided to make separate files for each segment
    between cuts! It's about time! j/k!

    For us anal types that MUST have nice menus, it's gonna make it
    a cinch to make chapters/menus this way...providing it can create
    program streams that way and not just VOBs... anyway...

    Compatibilty with players :

    I have found, like you, that different UDF versions play in different
    players. But what i have the most success with is in Nero, using
    DVD-ROM (UDF/ISO) and forcing Xbox compatibilty. This results in
    a DVD that plays in My Apex, Pioneer, Xbox and PS2. It also plays
    great in my friend's Toshiba. So maybe i should make one of those
    and go to Future Shop and try it in a whole bunch of DVD players
    and post my results.

    -Pr.

  8. #8
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    Possibility of going from TYTool to VOB?

    So the process will be:
    - Download the TyStream file.
    - Make the key file.
    - Cut the commercials unwanted bits.
    - Mux the file(s) to a vob.
    - Pick the selected shows for the disk image and process to a "file set". (What is the right term for that set of files anyway?
    - Load the DVD creation tool (nero or some other), pick the directory created by the tool, and burn.
    I was thinking something like:
    -Download the TYStream in VOB MUX mode.
    -Pick the selected shows (VOB files) and pocess to a file set
    (which contains VOB, BUP, IFO files).
    -Put files in VIDEO_TS folder automaticaly created by Nero (or burner of your choice)
    -Burn DVD

    Is this a possible senario for those that don't care about commercials or am I way off base?

    Thanks again jdiner for such wonderfull work!

  9. #9
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    Ummm. Yeah that is possible. There is no "need" to edit. But that is what most people want to do. It costs nothing to not edit. You just get it all...

    Oh and the creation of the video_ts directory and the rest of the setup is automatic and part of the tool. The whole point in a GUI is to make this as simple as possible.

    --jdiner
    Last edited by jdiner; 03-12-2003 at 03:28 AM.

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by BubbleLamp
    Well I can only speak for myself, but I was hoping for fully functional MPEGs coming out of the GOPEditor before you even wrangled with authoring tools. Reason being, there are tons of authoring tools already, but the well hashed/bashed audio and temporal errors prevent vplit generated files from working with them cleanly.

    Just my .02 cents.
    Unless you know something that I don't at this point. The problem is in the remux stage. Always has been. And if it comes out as a program stream. It has to be remux'ed. I mean it. It has to be. You have to have the VOB slots in it for it to be part of a file set.

    But I am not adverse to spending a bit of time trying to figure out what is going on with the rest of it. I guess I will have to hop on over to the thread from Pr.S and see what is being done and what fails. Does anyone have a small segment, TyFileSplit type thing, that show cases an audio failure?

    The reason I went to VOBs and what not is because in doing so I can garantee the file is correct. I have tests litterally hundreds of clips now, not burned just tested, and sync was maintain in all of them. Plus the edited spots worked both ways, as an all in 1 and as a bunch of seperate files...

    I don't mind stopping if another tool really works. Especially one that gives menus. But at last report it was pretty hit and miss.

    --jdiner

  11. #11
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    when you release this will it be windows only or will there be some way for the rest of us to use it? I don't even mind (much) if the rest of us can't use the graphical editor to create the cut file as long as the rest of it will work.

    David Lang

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by jdiner
    I guess I will have to hop on over to the thread from Pr.S and see what is being done and what fails. Does anyone have a small segment, TyFileSplit type thing, that show cases an audio failure?
    I have 2 small segments, one cut from the muxed mpg file prior to the MF2 process and then the same after converted to VOB by MF2. First one is 7MB second is 12MB, the diff is the audio that keeps going even when the video stops. Where do you want me to put them?

  13. #13
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    I need the TyStream files. I need to run the process the whole way to see what is happening at each stage.

    Is the mpeg being made right? Is it the mux stage? Is it something to do with the cutting? etc...

    --jdiner

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by jdiner
    I need the TyStream files. I need to run the process the whole way to see what is happening at each stage.

    Is the mpeg being made right? Is it the mux stage? Is it something to do with the cutting? etc...

    --jdiner
    From the Pr.S thread:
    - ty file process is ok
    - vsplit key generation is ok
    - gopeditor cut points ok
    - vsplit mux generation is ok
    - resulting muxed mpg without cuts ok

    then when we use that perfect playing (in PowerDVD) mpg file and import into MovieFactory2 for process the resulting VOB keep sync in the first part until the cut, then the video stops and the audio keep going for the lenght of the cut, then video start playing again with audio out of sync and then again the same in next cut so the audio stop playing long before video.

    As I stated in other post, maybe I don't explain things right, if you take a look at the files you will understand.

    In short, the resulting muxed file from your tools keeps perfect sync, the problem only happen when that file is converted to VOB with MovieFactory2 or DVDWorkshop without the simple multiplex step in TMPGEnc. I don't know if you can do something about it, your mpg plays ok.

    We know you are working in other things, and we can make the mpgs work with another step, no need to work in this right now.

  15. #15
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    Josh--Many of the older DVD players won't handle any burned DVD's.

    This link gives you some ideas as to what players work.

    http://www.dvdrhelp.com/dvdplayers

    The Apex units seem to be able to handle almost anything.

    I read that 1.02 is supposed to be more compatable. I know when I use IFOEDIT I exit, open the vob and "get VTS sectors".

    I appreciate the work of you (and others) in helping us with our "hobby".

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