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Thread: Has anyone achieved frame-accurate commercial cuts?

  1. #1
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    Has anyone achieved frame-accurate commercial cuts?

    cos I still haven't. I'm currently using TyStudio to extract, Womble MPEG-VCR to edit and demux, and Maestro to burn, but the result lost sync and in places had dreadful flicker, as if the frame order was wrong.

    Ho Hum.
    SVR 2000 running 3.0 with 1x160Gb and Lifetime Sub
    SAT-T60 running 3.1 with 1x250Gb and Turbonet over 802.11

  2. #2
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    I've been able to get frame accurate editing using mpeg2vcr, but I have to save each section I want to keep as a seperate file and join them together afterwards. ie. no cutting on the origional file, simply select the vid between the commercials and copy(save) to a seperate file. (mpeg2vcr ver 3.13)

    It keeps sync that way, but the problem I have with doing it that way is that it creates a "Temporal Reference Error" at every cut point!

    It looks great and keeps sync, but spruceup refuses to import it.

  3. #3
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    Am I missing something? I can't find any options in MPEG-VCR (3.13) to do a cut without reencoding the original file, so I haven't played with it. Is there some option that I can't find?

    I'd like to be able to merge/cut without reencoding - sort of like TMPGEnc can do under "MPEG Tools", except that it crashes when I try to work with mpeg2 files...

  4. #4
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    Fugg,

    I believe you're getting the temporal reference errors because you're notting cutting on an I-frame or GOP header. SpruceUp is intolerant of gaps between GOPs and cutting the video at any point is pretty much guaranteed to give you the fault you're seeing.

    How are you able to merge the video segments together and how well does it work? I want to try merging a couple of video segments from two different recordings but I'm not quite sure what's the best method to use. Perhaps you could post the process you're using.
    Please don't PM me or any other members looking for personal assistance. You'll do better by posting (after you've exhausted the search feature, of course) and taking advantage of the collective expertise of the membership instead of a single individual that may or may not be able to help you. Thank you and enjoy your stay at DDB!

  5. #5
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    Originally posted by captain_video
    Fugg,

    I believe you're getting the temporal reference errors because you're notting cutting on an I-frame or GOP header. SpruceUp is intolerant of gaps between GOPs and cutting the video at any point is pretty much guaranteed to give you the fault you're seeing.

    How are you able to merge the video segments together and how well does it work? I want to try merging a couple of video segments from two different recordings but I'm not quite sure what's the best method to use. Perhaps you could post the process you're using.
    I find that the method that is almost sure fire to merge with
    perfect sync is the Merge & Cut from TMPGEnc...

    -Pr.

  6. #6
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    "I believe you're getting the temporal reference errors because you're not() cutting on an I-frame or GOP header."

    Exactly. Mpeg2vcr does not "close" the gop frames when it cuts it in the middle. (I think!) Now if I could find something to "close out" the open frames before merging, we'd be in business.

    "How are you able to merge the video segments together and how well does it work?"

    as Pr.Sinister says, tmpgenc's "merge and cut" under "mpeg tools". Works like a champ!

    "Am I missing something? I can't find any options in MPEG-VCR (3.13) to do a cut without reencoding the original file"

    Select the segment you want and then click on the copy button and it will prompt you for a filename and to set the file properties. The default properties are set from the input mpeg, so if you don't change them, it does not re-encode.

  7. #7
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    well I have been doing editing for a long long time and really havnt found anything good for mpeg2 editing that does a good job plus if your cutting our commercials from a show, keeps the audio in sync.

    with tystudio, i get a gop cut error, cant find valid cut point, BUT it does write out my mpeg file with all my cuts, odd, how ever its got a major audio drift so after 15 min the audio gets out of sync +/- 500ms or more :/
    Gateway

  8. #8
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    Feb 2003
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    I use mfs_ftp to extract a ty, tyedit to convert easily to an SVCD compatible mpg, then bung it through M2-Edit to cut out ads, and demux and remux resultant M2-Edit mpg with TMPGEnc (M2-Edit mpgs seem to contain a load of extra unnecessary data)

    M2-Edit works great for frame perfect editing, as far as I can tell

  9. #9
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    yep, it takes some jumping though some hoops to just freaking cut out commercials and try to get a working mpeg2 stream :/
    Gateway

  10. #10
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    "Am I missing something? I can't find any options in MPEG-VCR (3.13) to do a cut without reencoding the original file"

    Select the segment you want and then click on the copy button and it will prompt you for a filename and to set the file properties. The default properties are set from the input mpeg, so if you don't change them, it does not re-encode.
    Hmm... it doesn't work that way for me. If I hit copy, it just puts it on the "video clipboard"... hitting the save button makes it want to re-encode - it starts as a 112meg file, it wants to save it to a 520meg file! Ugh!

  11. #11
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    If you cut in the middle of a GOP, then that GOP has to be re-generated somehow (re-encoded) with a new I-frame, so any MPEG2 frame-accurate cutting is always going to require re-encoding as well. Right?
    Philips Standalone v3.01 w/2-80G drives and Tivonet.

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by Damfino
    Hmm... it doesn't work that way for me. If I hit copy, it just puts it on the "video clipboard"... hitting the save button makes it want to re-encode - it starts as a 112meg file, it wants to save it to a 520meg file! Ugh!
    That's what it says but when you check the actual size on disk,
    it'll be real small. Try it.

    -Pr.

  13. #13
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    The problem with mpeg-vcr (and m2edit) is that they look at the stated bitrate of the clip and use that when doing any encoding.

    You have to patch the MPEG first so that the bitrate is something reasonable. By default it's something stupid like 15M, so patch it to 3.5M

    Then when you do a cut it will transcode the GOPs that are affected and leave the rest alone. But if you didn't set the bitrate the new GOPs will use very high bitrates and may not be compliant with DVD.

    Its size estimates are based on the video length assuming CBR, so the files end up smaller than it predicts.

    But sync gets lost in the process.
    SVR 2000 running 3.0 with 1x160Gb and Lifetime Sub
    SAT-T60 running 3.1 with 1x250Gb and Turbonet over 802.11

  14. #14
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    Dec 2001
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    37

    15

    Has anyone figured out how to get tystudio to cut get the cuts right and no GOP cut errors?

    also something I used to do along time ago that allowed me to cut out commercials and keep the audio sync, was to save each segment as a sperate mpeg file..

    so if you have 15 min of the first part of your program, cut that save it, then do the next part after the commercials.. granted you can get like 3-4 segments for a 1/2 show..
    Gateway

  15. #15
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    Mar 2003
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    4

    Cuts

    I've been using a program called My Flix XE which does frame acurate cuts no problem without loosing synch. I've produced 20+ dvd's with this cut method and it's been perfect every time.
    The only downside is the progam isn't cheap. So far it's been worth the cash to me as it's very fast, easy to use and produces great results.

    http://www.mediaware.com.au


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