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Thread: DSR-708 vs DSR-7000

  1. #31
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    Actually, Dave has a point. RID units are for sell now. As the well dries up on the non-RID units, DirecTV will probably stop activating non-RID units.

    The argument that they HAVE to remain backwards compatible is absolutley ignorant - they do it to keep from losing subscribers to competing sat and cable companies. If they made my IRD useless tomorrow afternoon - I would have no legal recourse. I signed the User Agreement that they wrote - did any of you read it before signing?

    Would I be angry? Absolutely!
    Would DirecTV really care? Probably not.

  2. #32
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    The sat and cable companies are under tremendous pressure from the DCMA to secure their works. Tivo is naturally affected by this from presssure by DirectTv to clamp down and tighten up the boxes. Although Tivo will never publicly admit it, they are happy that people hack their tivos as long as they are not commiting theft of service. The fact that you can soup them up is publicity for them and ultimately sells units. It's one of the main reasons I purchased my tivos.

    It seems that as the technology and quality of the content improves that there is less concern about duplication of older technology/lower quality. How many people are still renting VHS tapes? Soon they will no longer be available. The big push/concern is to lock down the HDTV content so that it can not be extracted or duplicated. The DCMA wants this done before HDTV becomes mainstream. When it does, there will be less of a demand for lower quality/res. Of course DirectTv also wants to lessen theft of service but for different reasons (profitability)than securing the content.

    I am certain that soon after non-IRD units are out of production that DirectTv will refuse to activate non-RID units. As long as you keep you subscription active to your non-IRD they will probably not bother you.

    I agree with DB in that when the effort and cost of stealing service is greater than the service itself then there is no point in stealing it. This is a basic concept in security. It's my observation that the security measures taken are gradually starting to have an impact. The problem that the sat and cable companies are faced with is that there is such a large and often collaborated set of hackers that they have to contend with. It's like having a million people robbing the same bank.

    I'm not condoning violation of copyrights and theft of service but I almost see it as a balance of nature. If people and companies charged a more reasonable price for their works then less people would would pirate them. After all, why should all music CD's sell for about the same price. Why aren't there any that sell for $5. Same holds true for DVD's. Why is it that basic cable/sat service costs 45 to 50 bucks a month, without a premium channel? Basically, it the content did not cost so much then less people would steal it. It may not be right but is is a balance of nature.

  3. #33
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    Originally posted by Sleeper
    Although Tivo will never publicly admit it, they are happy that people hack their tivos as long as they are not commiting theft of service.
    I, also, think this is the case.

    Originally posted by Sleeper
    The fact that you can soup them up is publicity for them and ultimately sells units. It's one of the main reasons I purchased my tivos.
    This is EXACTLY why I WAITED until I knew tivo was 'hackable' and wouldn't whine (but maybe silently support) then bought mine!

    Originally posted by Sleeper
    If people and companies charged a more reasonable price for their works then less people would would pirate them. After all, why should all music CD's sell for about the same price. Why aren't there any that sell for $5. Same holds true for DVD's. Why is it that basic cable/sat service costs 45 to 50 bucks a month, without a premium channel? Basically, it the content did not cost so much then less people would steal it. It may not be right but is is a balance of nature.
    I agree with everything you posted... the above vehemently! If it's an 'average' movie or recording then say so via pricing!

    Every medium seems to decrease in price like it's decaying... NOT on the basis of how pleasing/marketable it is.

    NutKase


    PS. Sorry, I'm sleepy and this 'smacks' of a ME TOO post.
    Last edited by NutKase; 12-22-2003 at 11:05 AM.
    "God, and DealDataBase, help those that help themselves." --Shamelessly stolen from psxboy
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    2 each, SA S2 287hr 7.2.1a's with Lifetime.
    Hacks: 1 Manually Monte'd -140, Bash,Telnet,FTP,TivoWebPlus,
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  4. #34
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    I'm seeing a lot of good points on both sides of the fence on this issue, although the VCR/DVD analogy was too lame even for DB. The point about current analog NTSC receivers being phased out is a good example. I can see DTV eventually phasing out non-RID equipment sometime down the road but I'm willing to bet that it will occur about the same time that analog NTSC receivers will disappear. If all broadcasters are required to switch over to HDTV then the argument about current non-RID receivers is moot since they'll be completely obsolete anyway, with the exception of the non-RID HDTV models. I don't know what the actual numbers are but I'd bet that the number of HDTV DTV receivers currently in use is a drop in the bucket compared to what it will be 5 or 6 years from now.

    I'd be surprised if DTV would ever refuse to activate a non-RID receiver as long as it was being used with the current flavor of access card. However, I could see where they might offer a free equipment upgrade or at least one at a low enough cost to make it attractive to existing subscribers. Chances are newer equipment would offer features that would make it desirable for owners of the older receivers to upgrade, thus eventually reducing the number of non-RID models in use through normal attrition. I'm sure DTV will come up with some sort of upgrade offer to get everyone to switch over if it ever comes down to that. They're already doing it with the phase III oval dishes so swapping out receivers isn't much of a stretch for them if they know they'll keep you as a subscriber.
    Please don't PM me or any other members looking for personal assistance. You'll do better by posting (after you've exhausted the search feature, of course) and taking advantage of the collective expertise of the membership instead of a single individual that may or may not be able to help you. Thank you and enjoy your stay at DDB!

  5. #35
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    Originally posted by captain_video
    If all broadcasters are required to switch over to HDTV
    There is no such requirement for non-OTA programming, nor will the bandwidth for this sort of thing be available any time in the near future on satellite systems.

    Get your head out of your ass.

  6. #36
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    There is no such requirement for non-OTA programming, nor will the bandwidth for this sort of thing be available any time in the near future on satellite systems.
    That may be true but the non-OTA braoadcasters will certainly see the writing on the wall. If they want to maintain any sort of viewership down the road then they'll have no choice but to switch over to HDTV at some point. This could mean that additional satellites may have to be deployed to supply the needed bandwidth. Cable will undoubtedly get left in the dust and will hopefully go the way of the dinosaurs. BTW, is it at all possible for you to have a civil conversation with anyone or are you just trying to prove that you're incapable of interacting with the human race? FWIW, you've proven your point in spades.
    Please don't PM me or any other members looking for personal assistance. You'll do better by posting (after you've exhausted the search feature, of course) and taking advantage of the collective expertise of the membership instead of a single individual that may or may not be able to help you. Thank you and enjoy your stay at DDB!

  7. #37
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    Originally posted by captain_video
    That may be true but the non-OTA braoadcasters will certainly see the writing on the wall. If they want to maintain any sort of viewership down the road then they'll have no choice but to switch over to HDTV at some point.
    You assume that they are competing directly with high resolution content.

    This could mean that additional satellites may have to be deployed to supply the needed bandwidth. Cable will undoubtedly get left in the dust and will hopefully go the way of the dinosaurs.
    Pop quiz: who's got more bandwidth available? Hint: it starts with 'c' and ends with "able".

  8. #38
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    You assume that they are competing directly with high resolution content.
    Not necessarily although I'm sure we'd all love to see the Home Shopping Network in Hi-Def.


    Pop quiz: who's got more bandwidth available? Hint: it starts with 'c' and ends with "able".
    That may be but have you actually seen digital cable? It totally sucks IMO and the equipment they give you is usually crap. The converters supplied by Comcast in my area don't even have S-video outputs let alone component video or DVI connectors. Cable will probably hang on but it still has more issues to deal with than satellite. I may lose my satellite signal during a torrential downpour but I used to lose my cable every time there was a light rain, not to mention they were always cutting the lines during construction. The constant outages were simply intolerable. When I found that locals were available in my area via DTV I couldn't wait to cut the cord with Comcast. Ironically, I may sign back up with them for basic service since it's actually cheaper to have wideband internet with cable TV than it is to get it on its own. I'm sure I'll raise an eyebrow when I tell the installer not to bother connecting the cable to anything.
    Please don't PM me or any other members looking for personal assistance. You'll do better by posting (after you've exhausted the search feature, of course) and taking advantage of the collective expertise of the membership instead of a single individual that may or may not be able to help you. Thank you and enjoy your stay at DDB!

  9. #39
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    David, I find you to be extremely rude and condescending. Not that you would care what I think so flame away Lord David. Your lack of patience and respect for people who have shown you no disrespect at all is nauseating. That being said, it defies logic for DTV to force over 10 million subs to switch their boxes over. They may implement some sort of upgrade/subsidized program in place, but there would have to be a benefit to the subscriber for any reasonable person to do this. Such as a $5 reduction on your monthly bill if you are using an RID (unhackable??) receiver. (Ya, like thatís going to happen)

    This issue is not about the law. Legally they can probably do what they want. It is about customer service. If I had 2 or 3 receivers that stopped functioning, the last thing I would do is spend my good hard earned money buying new receivers because hackers made DTV change their technology. For DTV to foot the bill themselves to avoid a customer service disaster would not make financial sense since they would be sending out new equipment primarily to those who don't even think about stealing their signal. It would make more sense that the new receivers are being implemented to curb signal theft in the future.


    Z

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Bought
    There is no such requirement for non-OTA programming, nor will the bandwidth for this sort of thing be available any time in the near future on satellite systems.
    This response was to a statement that broadcasters are being forced to change over to HDTV. I just wanted to point out that this is a common misconception. The FCC ruling only states that broadcasters must switch to DIGITAL broadcasts by the deadline (which I can't seem to remember right now....Jan 2006?). There is nothing about forcing broadcaters to broadcast High Def content. While all HD broadcasts are digital, digital doesn't mean HD.

    And like David said, just before he criticized Captain Videos self-proctology methods, there is no such ruling for cable or sat.

    Bryan

  11. #41
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    Sorry if I muddied things up by indicating broadcasters have to switch over to HDTV and not digital in general. The overall effect is essentially the same as far as the end user is concerned, although perhaps a little less cost intensive, because they'd still have to upgrade to digital equipment vs. analog whether it's Hi-Def or standard definition.

    You newbies have got to start learning to consider the source when dealing with David Bought's posts. He tends to go out of his way to get a rise out of you and the best course of action is to simply ignore his rude outbursts. Maybe Santa brought him a personality for Christmas and we won't have to listen to his bitching anymore but it's unlikely he got anything more than a sack of coal. I think he's the guy that Dr. Seuss modeled the Grinch after.
    Please don't PM me or any other members looking for personal assistance. You'll do better by posting (after you've exhausted the search feature, of course) and taking advantage of the collective expertise of the membership instead of a single individual that may or may not be able to help you. Thank you and enjoy your stay at DDB!

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain_video
    Sorry if I muddied things up by indicating broadcasters have to switch over to HDTV and not digital in general. The overall effect is essentially the same as far as the end user is concerned, although perhaps a little less cost intensive, because they'd still have to upgrade to digital equipment vs. analog whether it's Hi-Def or standard definition.
    Could you please restate this paragraph in English? Thanks.

    --everybody who reads your drivel

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrblack51
    no, its identical to the dsr7000 hardware wise except for the rid modifications AFAIK. definitely not a faster processor.
    If anything, from what I can tell of my friends' unit, it is *slightly* MORE sluggish. Maybe a cheaper video card? Or less RAM? (32mb not 64mb?) Dunno, but the menus defintely appeared to be *slightly* slower and less responsive.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Bought
    Pop quiz: who's got more bandwidth available? Hint: it starts with 'c' and ends with "able".
    Not to mention the fact that if cable companies decided they wanted double the bandwidth they just connect another wire to your house. I'm sure the fiber optic backbone they use for digital cable these days has plenty of overhead to allow that.

    I will continue to be skeptical about widespread wireless use though send once listen many wireless models have better long term viability than point to point wireless models. There are just too many people to have everyone on earth broadcast thier own signal and not enough spectrum.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by imaloserbaby
    If anything, from what I can tell of my friends' unit, it is *slightly* MORE sluggish. Maybe a cheaper video card? Or less RAM? (32mb not 64mb?) Dunno, but the menus defintely appeared to be *slightly* slower and less responsive.
    those type of differences cant be substantiated. there are some minor hardware differences, and of course some associated software changes. because of that, its unlikely you can make a legit comparison unless you take an DSR708 and a DSR7000, two identical hard drives, load them up with an identical 3.1.1b image, and then start testing. in that situation, i doubt you will be able to find statistically significant differences.
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