Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 66

Thread: All good things come to an end!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    43

    Unhappy All good things come to an end!

    Seems TiVo has decided helping each other out with backup images is a bad thing, and is now threatning to sue sites that are hosting such images.

    I just received this Email from TiVo's legal team:

    Your website (ftp.abs.net) has recently come to our attention. We appreciate your enthusiasm for the TiVo® DVR and we have some specific requests regarding your website.

    We request that you cease hosting backup images of TiVo's proprietary software. The software represents valuable intellectual property of TiVo's, and making it available for copying and distribution is a violation of TiVo's copyrights. Such use is without our consent and is illegal under US federal copyright law. In particular, we are requesting that all of the files and directories located at ftp://ftp.abs.net/tivo/Backups/ be removed.



    As such being a US based site, I must now stop helping the TiVo community with this service, sorry everyone. I sure home some of you, or some overseas can still provide this valuable service to help people with damaged TiVo's out...

    Regards...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    327

    Unhappy Bummer, but inevitable...

    probably due to pressure from DirecTV and MPAA, no doubt.

    Thanks for the love, up to this point!!
    keith721
    ------------------------------------------------
    Series 1 SVR-2000 w/TurboNet

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    58
    That is a HUGE bummer. If they provided the service on their own (providing backup images) I could understand. Since they don't, they should be thanking you, not threatening you...a$$ clowns...

    Your genorsity has been sincerely appreciated. That's a bad move, TiVo...bad move...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Mystery Spot
    Posts
    200
    Hmm.... This makes me wonder.

    There has been 'talk' (read: somewhat unfounded rumors) that DirecTV was going to be releasing some sort of HMO. TiVo images have been shared for a while now and it's only recently that people have figured out SA 4.x can be used on DTiVo.

    I wonder if DirecTV is somewhat behind this recent request to remove images in hopes people will shell out some cash for their HMO rather than use the SA version (If I remember correctly the various HMO options are not fully functioning using the SA software on a DTiVo but people out there are very industrious and I imagine someone will get it working eventually).

    Just a thought...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1

    Question Backup Image Hosting

    Hi, I could probably provide hosting for the backup images on one of my servers, could any of the previous hosters give me some idea as to the amount of space required, and a rough expectation upon traffic? I probably have almost all the ABS files, plus Brothers, and about 6 other sites already, but could use any advice possible.

    And future uploads would, of course, be encouraged. Pure lecchign never really helps anyone.


    Thanx

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    13

    Procrastination bites again

    I knew I should have grabbed a 14 hour philips sa 3 image instead of waiting around. Now I'm going to have to load the old one up and let it download for hours to get it up to date.

    crap.


    No good deed goes unpunished.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    47
    Its still up if you want to grab a few images. Who knows how much longer it will be up.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    6
    Well, as my first posting here, let me take what will certainly be an unpopular position....Tivo simply has to take this position for two major reasons:

    1. The obvious one is that it has to protect against the unauthorized redistribution of its software. If it took NO action in this regard, then down the road someone could take one of these images and re-create a Tivo and sell it without paying any licensing fees. In these days of Chinese knock-offs (why do you think you can buy a DVD player for $35?) this is a real possibility. If Tivo doesn't protect its software now...it can lose the rights to it later on.

    2. The second is product liability. If Tivo doesn't take steps to discourage consumers from upgrading machines then eventually someone will open one up, stick a screwdriver into a hot power supply and get killed. The survivors hire a lawyer who sues Tivo. Unless Tivo can show that it discouraged and took steps to prevent such practices, it can be found liable for injury, depending on the jurisdiction.

    And as for who the heck I am, I am a TV producer/engineer with 25 years of experience, who has three DirecTivos, two of which have been upgraded with Linux.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    25

    Thumbs down Noooooo!

    Dammit! I had just geared myself up to switch from DISH to DTIVO and am supposed to be picking up a DVR7000 tonight! Have any of the TIVO people on the AVS forums come forward to explain this? WHY is this a problem? This does NOT give me a warm fuzzy about switchnig but honestly I don't see anything better coming from DISH anytime soon. If they begin going after folks like say Sleeper WILL drop their service IF I even sign up at this point - penalties be damned.

    I wanted to get 4.0 working on my future box at some point, now this may be harder. This is REALLY unsettling and as a potential new customer I don't like this at all....

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    973
    Originally posted by mnassour
    If Tivo doesn't protect its software now...it can lose the rights to it later on.
    Wrong. This is not consistent with US copyright law. Do your research before you post.

    Unless Tivo can show that it discouraged and took steps to prevent such practices, it can be found liable for injury, depending on the jurisdiction.
    Wrong again. Hundreds of different consumer electronics devices have active hacking communities. Has this ever happened before? NO. If you had even bothered reading this board you would know that Tivo has taken many steps to attempt to prevent hacking in their latest units, anyway.

    Stick to TV producing, because you obviously know nothing about the law.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    1,495
    Everybody seems to be doing quite a bit of whining...

    1) It's Tivo's software, and if they choose one person who can distribute it rather than another, it's their choice whether we like it or not.

    2) When you buy a Tivo, it comes with software. If you want to play, back it up!

    3) If you buy a used Tivo without software, do it knowing you will have to get it somewhere else. Maybe you will find a place to download it for free, and maybe you will have to pay a support cost to get it fixed. Tivo is not responsible for making sure people that open the box and void the warranty have the tools to fix the box on their own.

    4) I didn't see any threatening letter posted. What I did see was a respectful letter from Tivo's attorneys requesting that their intellectual property not be distributed without their permission. Why is this wrong? Would you want your software distributed without your permission?

    That being said, I don't see any harm in Tivo posting the latest image for each model on their site for download in the future (I believe this was eluded to in Dennis' conversation with the Tivo folks) but it's their choice, not ours. As far as older versions of the software, if you want it, keep good backups. They are not obligated to provide users with versions of software that make it easier to bypass their security measures.

    If anyone has an issue with Tivo's policy, then I recommend not supporting them by buying another brand of PVR. If you didn't like GM's warranty, would you buy their car and then complain about the service? Personally, I think they should post latest images in good faith, but they are not obligated to.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    58
    While my style of "calling it like I see it" is a tad different than David's, I must say I agree with him.

    TiVo already engineered protections into the units to make them pretty lame without having active service with TiVo or DirecTV. They are nothing more than a fancy VCR without the TiVo service. If this is caused by a (perceived) proactive initiative to avoid the creation of knock-off's...then...they are royally *****ic.

    The simple fact is...there are many good uses for making these backup images available (which TiVo does not do today). The most important to me...is the readily availble option of having a backup. If it weren't for the very generous web sites that host these images, I'd be SOL.


    Example:

    If one of my TiVo's...an SVR2000 (a now outdated Series 1 SA) were to lose it's main hard drive (you mean hard drives can fail?!) what would I do? Does TiVo charge a reasonable fee to re-purpose the unit? Has TiVo had enough brain power to put out a "Recovery CD" that will let you do your own drive replacement in the event of failure? Since it's out of warranty anyways, shouldn't I have the option of repairing it myself? If these things are intended to be disposable...the price definitely isn't right...

    I think this is a very unfortunate move on the part of TiVo...and...I'm a veteran of the software industry...that knows more about protecting intellectual property (software to be exact) than anyone I've ever met in the TV industry...

    EDIT: My backup collection has now begun. I had no reason for it before...but...my intrinsic desire to help people ignored by corporate stupidity has spawned it.

    Extra Special EDIT: Your auto analogy is out of place. How would anyone have experience with a XYZ warranty before purchasing and using such a warranty? I would not buy an XYZ vehicle if there was a component on the vehicle that made it disposable (after warranty) because a replacement could not be found. Your point that people should make their own backups is also wrong. Opening the box voids the warranty. Period. I don't usually make a habit of buying expensive electronics equipment and voiding the warranty within 20 minutes just to protect myself against corporate idiocy. Finally, the only whining I will do is this...please go away. Your implication alone that "whining" is people disagreeing with an issue and discussing is ignorant.
    Last edited by amgqmp1; 12-10-2003 at 12:46 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    1,495
    Originally posted by amgqmp1

    EDIT: My backup collection has now begun. I had no reason for it before...but...my intrinsic desire to help people ignored by corporate stupidity has spawned it.

    Extra Special EDIT: Your auto analogy is out of place. How would anyone have experience with a XYZ warranty before purchasing and using such a warranty? I would not buy an XYZ vehicle if there was a component on the vehicle that made it disposable (after warranty) because a replacement could not be found. Your point that people should make their own backups is also wrong. Opening the box voids the warranty. Period. I don't usually make a habit of buying expensive electronics equipment and voiding the warranty within 20 minutes just to protect myself against corporate idiocy. Finally, the only whining I will do is this...please go away. Your implication alone that "whining" is people disagreeing with an issue and discussing is ignorant.
    Who said a replacement couldn't be found? People are just pissed because they have to pay for it. Phillips is happy to replace the hard-drive in your out-of-warranty Tivo with the latest version of software for a fee.

    If it is in warranty, they will be happy to fix it at no charge.

    Let's get real... this is a Tivo hacking board. People don't come here to read the board and then not open their Tivo. You're just kidding yourself.

    So now I ask, what corporate idiocy are you referring to... the fact that if you use the hardware as advertised, they will fix it for free if it breaks, or the fact that if the box is out of warranty or you void the warranty by hacking it, Tivo expects to be paid for support?

    As far as my whining comment, I stand by it. This is not the place for 100 posts saying the same thing... I was about to hack my Tivo and now all the backups are gone... waaaa!

    I will say it again... It's Tivo's software, not ours. They can allow us to distribute it, or not, as they see fit. Hopefully, they will follow through and give us an outlet to get the software for free, but if they don't, then you as a consumer have the right to not buy another one.

    You can sling names and call me ignorant if you want, if that's your argument, then I will take it for what it's worth.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    25

    Thumbs down

    My concern is this: They have KNOWN about these images for at least 2 years. They have suddenly asked for them to be pulled. WHY? Is this the beginning of a new campaign to stop us from modifying the boxes? After the images are pulled will they be sending down a new software revision that locks us all out? They claim to have just now had this site brought to their attention - that is a LIE. WHY are they LYING? WHAT is next?

    I'm a potential customer who wishes to join this community. TIVO for a reason they have not revealed has just taken steps that DAMAGE this community. As a potential purchaser I would like to know WHY. So far the ONLY reason I have seen from TIVO is a LIE - they they just now realized this was going on. I don't trust companies that lie and am now wondering what I should do next since DISH has yet again NOT followed through on their promises.

    I'm looking for a logical explanation, so far TIVO hasn't provided one here or on the AVS forums they claim to support. I've been using DISH for about 6 years or so and a Replay for less than 1. I don't wish to jump from the pan into the fire and I REALLY don't want to end up on cable again If that sounds like whining to you then I'm sorry - for me this is a legitimate concern. I nkow I can backup my own drive, in fact I'll just leave it on the shelf pristine, I'm worried about what will occur when the other shoe falls. They had NO reason to do this that I can fathom....

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    11
    If it is in warranty, they will be happy to fix it at no charge.
    Yeah that amazing ****ing 90 day warranty my DTivo came with. Get real.

    My Dtivo modem died just like _thousands_ of others. It died because Tivo didn't isolate the modem correctly, and then used low quality parts.

    I wasn't about to pay $200 to fix a $500 unit that I just bought because of a shitty design and a lousy warranty. I hacked the software to let me keep running the Tivo THAT I PAID FOR. It is a DTivo so there is no program data to worry about. I have a lifetime subscription so what harm was there to Tivo in doing this?

    Then, a few months ago Tivo decides to lock me out of my local channels. My Tivo was working fine until _they_ decided to break it by requiring the new software on DTivo units.

    This time I had to download the newest software image, install it, and set my region code in order to get my Tivo working correctly. Now if the modem hadn't been a POS to begin with, my Tivo would have upgraded itself. I didn't steal a new software image, I installed an image I would have gotten had they designed the unit right to begin with. (I have also had to replace the POS fan in the unit also)

    -Don

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •