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Thread: DSS hacking Banned - But HMO unlocking OK?

  1. #1
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    DSS hacking Banned - But HMO unlocking OK?

    I'm wondering why what seems to be 'stealing' a paid service from TiVo $99(HMO) - by installing 4.0 on a S2DTiVo and unlocking it within tivoapp - is a topic allowed yet the other known banned topic is not?

    Am I missing something, or misunderstanding what is being done here?

    Seems to me some have been able to install 4.0 on a DirectTiVo Series2 - which it is NOT designed for. And specific "Tips" are suggested so as to keep it from calling in to let "TiVo" know -- sounds somewhat shady to me?

    How are these select(lucky) few able to pay for that "free testing" of the HMO feature. Are we saying as a forum community that it is OK to steal from TiVo but not from DirectTV?

    If I misunderstood what is taking place here, please forgive me, because I haven't done this first hand, and I don't fully understand this completely. But if this is happening - something ain't right here. I REALLY hope I'm wrong.
    Last edited by Hi8; 02-11-2004 at 11:19 PM.
    ~Hi8

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  2. #2
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    From the talk I've heard on the forum in general, excluding specific people, the talk about DSS hacking would be tolerated if it weren't for HEAVY legal heat that DTV has been putting on websites that post this information. I think the feeling is that tivo isn't as likely to shut down the site for HMO talk and I think that when it seems like they want to that the talk will be stifled.

    I think this site wants to be free as far as hack discussion but avoids known trouble issues.
    Malfunct

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by malfunct
    From the talk I've heard on the forum in general, excluding specific people, the talk about DSS hacking would be tolerated if it weren't for HEAVY legal heat that DTV has been putting on websites that post this information. I think the feeling is that tivo isn't as likely to shut down the site for HMO talk and I think that when it seems like they want to that the talk will be stifled.

    I think this site wants to be free as far as hack discussion but avoids known trouble issues.
    if this is true, then I completely misunderstood this community's moral stand - of late. I thought the high road that was being taken was one founded on moral integrity? Now I find out it closer to "As long as we don't get caught it's OK!" -

    wow... If this is really the reasons for the rules here, I think I'm in the wrong place. How can anybody be bitching about copyrights?
    ~Hi8

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hi8
    I'm wondering why what seems to be 'stealing' a paid service from TiVo $99(HMO) - by installing 4.0 on a S2DTiVo and unlocking it within tivoapp - is a topic allowed yet the other known banned topic is not?
    Where is this conversation? I see plenty about installing 4.0 but nothing about unlocking HMO. Maybe I am missing something...

  5. #5
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    I'm not aware of anyone trying to defraud or cheat Tivo out of their HMO fees. In fact, you'll need to post the link to the thread you're reffering to or I will close this imflamatory thread as it will have been proven to have no merit.

    This forum does not condone any theft of service. I suggest you reconsider your stance, or illustrate your point.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hi8
    Am I missing something, or misunderstanding what is being done here?

    Seems to me some have been able to install 4.0 on a DirectTiVo Series2 - which it is NOT designed for. And specific "Tips" are suggested so as to keep it from calling in to let "TiVo" know -- sounds somewhat shady to me?
    I believe that you are misunderstanding. Although 4.x and 5.x have been successfully installed on HDVR2's, no-one has publicly stated that they have been able to circumvent the the subscription to the HMO feature. Hence, no-one with a HDVR2 has the feature either legally or illegally. And from what I understand the security to prevent the feature from being stolen is very strong and not likely to be broken very easily.

    If you are really inerested in the HMO feature there are free tools available that you could build upon to create your own HMO like features.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeper
    I believe that you are misunderstanding. Although 4.x and 5.x have been successfully installed on HDVR2's, no-one has publicly stated that they have been able to circumvent the the subscription to the HMO feature. Hence, no-one with a HDVR2 has the feature either legally or illegally. And from what I understand the security to prevent the feature from being stolen is very strong and not likely to be broken very easily.

    If you are really inerested in the HMO feature there are free tools available that you could build upon to create your own HMO like features.
    There was talk about how to "activate hmo" on 4.0. It was met with no resistance from a "theft" point of view. Noone has managed to do it, or if they have noone has released the hack. I guess I was just misunderstanding the reason for preventing talk about the dtv service theft hacks. It seemed that in the past discussing the hack was discouraged for obvious reasons but not prohibited, so I thought the same approach was being taking regarding HMO. Seemed like a free speech sort of issue.

    That said I see no reason to "steal" HMO when the hacking community is well on thier way to making solutions that make it unecessary on the dtivos. My personal opinion is that I'd gladly pay DTV/tivo for HMO if they would be willing to sell it to me.
    Malfunct

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  8. #8
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    first of all, knowing what we do about hacking the tivo, why would you want HMO? Like CV said the hacks are already free, and in some ways better.

    second, are you telling me that TiVo authenticates HMO locally on the box, and dosen't use some sort of offsite authentication? I find that hard to believe (can you hack tivo into thinking that it has a lifetime sub, after phoning to tivo?)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVD
    first of all, knowing what we do about hacking the tivo, why would you want HMO? Like CV said the hacks are already free, and in some ways better.

    second, are you telling me that TiVo authenticates HMO locally on the box, and dosen't use some sort of offsite authentication? I find that hard to believe (can you hack tivo into thinking that it has a lifetime sub, after phoning to tivo?)
    Let's go to McSorley's and discuss it over say thirty or fifty beers! HMO definately authenticates to the home office. Somewhere there is a thread about this, just don't remember.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJBliss
    I'm not aware of anyone trying to defraud or cheat Tivo out of their HMO fees. In fact, you'll need to post the link to the thread you're reffering to or I will close this imflamatory thread as it will have been proven to have no merit.

    This forum does not condone any theft of service. I suggest you reconsider your stance, or illustrate your point.
    The three threads I found "discussing it" are:

    http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/sh...&highlight=HMO
    http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/sh...&highlight=HMO
    http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/sh...highlight=omfg

    Its definitely to be noted that no hack details were mentioned, and the final result was always "can't happen guess we have to wait". Also it was always a dtivo getting to use hmo so tivo wouldn't be "losing" any money thus I guess its not really theft. It never however came out saying "unauthorized activation of HMO is not to be discussed on this board" and was more of a "we would discuss it if we had anything to discuss". Older threads were more of the additude of "you would be stupid to post that hack if you had even figured it out". Also as you point out noone was attempting to activate the feature to "defraud" tivo.

    I don't know, I'm all for the freedom of speech thing myself. I guess you guys just HEAVILY stress the dtv theft prevention stuff because you can do it but shouldn't, and you haven't had to stress the HMO activation stuff because there is no hack to do it or the hack isn't public.

    My comments were in no way meant to be inflammitory to anyone, just pointing out what I seemed to see which I fully accepted as fine. Now I know that the leaders (mods) of the site believe differently than what I saw to be the trend which is also totally fine.
    Malfunct

    HDVR2 - 120hours - Extraction enabled
    SD-DVR40 - Unhacked (for now)

  11. #11
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    the only public discussion i have seen regarding hmo on a dtivo has related to swapping the crypto chip from a s2 sa unit that has HMO paid for. as such, you wouldnt be stealing anything. putting 4.0 on dtivos is about getting extra features that you cant pay for on the dtivo, and that come free on an SA unit - mainly folders.

    as has been stated in this thread and others, the extraction and show transfer tools were around before HMO, and provide different sets of features - some of which overlap. the statements by hi8 are inflamatory at best, groundless is a better term.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeper
    Let's go to McSorley's and discuss it over say thirty or fifty beers! HMO definately authenticates to the home office. Somewhere there is a thread about this, just don't remember.
    Yeah, its been mentioned more than once that I have read. Its also been mentioned that the stored keys expire regularily.
    Malfunct

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  13. #13
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    as for the dtv thing, there are two main issues:

    1) this is a tivo hacking board, not a dtv hacking board. if we let every johnny come lately freetv'er come here and post a bunch of dtv hacking stuff, the forum will lose its focus. these types of posts are off topic at best. even if we were to allow that sort of talk, we would end up being a mediocre board at best in that area.

    2) its illegal in the US. As such, we can't be supporting service theft like that

    now, as for HMO - currently, there is no way to buy HMO for the dtivo. does that make it service theft? im not sure. would it be service theft if you did it on an SA s2? yeah, probably. in the end, the issue hasnt come up all that much, so there hasnt been a pressing need to deal with it.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeper
    Let's go to McSorley's and discuss it over say thirty or fifty beers! HMO definately authenticates to the home office. Somewhere there is a thread about this, just don't remember.
    HMO uses keys in the Keyring for activation. they are encrypted and have expiration dates.
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  15. #15
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    If if fact this is NOT happening - because it has NOT been 'cracked' yet the "unlocking" refered to in this post ... I'm sorry for stinking up the pond here. I suppose I just was a bit miffed as to how many were walking and talking the "holyier than thou" attitude of late on another closed thread here; and somehow felt participating in ventures that prompt tips like "hiding the activity from the 'home studio' "

    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleNerd
    Tips for 4.0 on your S2 DTivo

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Alright, now that the cat is out of the bag, I'd like to start a thread in this forum with tips on running 4.0 on your S2 DTivos.

    Yep, 4.0 can definitely be run on the DSR7000 and HDVR2s. Congratulations to Scotty79 for being enterprising enough to try what he did.

    Anyhow, here's my tip #1: set up an IP filter on your home firewall (you do have one, right?) to prevent that box from making service calls. You don't want the home studio to know that you're running that software.

    Tip #3: Even if the SA S2 image you've restored from has HMO enabled, you won't be able to get those keys to work on your box (unless you swap out the crypto chip). HMO keys are tied to your TCD number. However, all of the HMO functionality *is* in that 4.0 tivoapp, even on an S2 DTivo. It just needs to be unlocked.
    ~Hi8

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