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Thread: 6.1 and 6.2 software on DTiVo Series2.0

  1. #1
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    6.1 and 6.2 software on DTiVo Series2.0

    Series2.0 DirecTV combo units are likely to upgrade to software version 6.1 or 6.2 in the next few months. As most DTiVo owners here will probably be running version 4.x in the near future, I will summarize the pros and cons of taking the 6.x upgrade over remaining at 4.x:

    Pros:

    - support for 72.5W and 95W locals
    - possible fix for dual tuner scheduling bugs (if such a thing exists)
    - parental controls should work correctly
    - optical audio bug should be fixed
    - faster guide / UI ? this has been reported on the Series2.5 R10, but it is unclear what the effects (if any) will be on Series2.0 units. We do know that 6.x+ uses "GuideIndexV3" instead of "GuideIndexV2", which may improve lookup times.
    - it's a new toy to play with

    Cons:

    - 6.1 will probably break many/most existing hacks, including TWP, fixsub, HMO superpatch, etc. In 6.x the eventswitcher has been removed.
    - 6.1 supposedly introduces new recording/copy/retention restrictions (as seen in the media coverage / slashdot / etc.)
    - "video on request" features - this sounds to me like spam in your Now Playing listing. Maybe this will turn out to be a "pro."

    Non-issues:

    - networking - supported in both versions
    - LBA48 - available in both versions
    - folders - present in both versions
    - killhdinitrd/monte - can be used for both versions
    - HME / TivoToGo - not available in 4.x or 6.x, and 7.x looks to be unworkable

    I expect that many of these issues will be resolved over time in order to accommodate the new DirecTV Series2.5 units which will only run 6.1, but 4.x will be your best bet for the forseeable future. In addition, it is worth noting that binary patches (such as the HMO superpatch) are likely to differ between the Series2.0 build and the Series2.5 build of any given software version. Since most of us will be running 4.x whenever possible (on Series2.0 boxes), it is likely that 6.1/Series2.5 patches will be available more readily than 6.1/Series2.0 patches.

    You may use this thread to discuss your experiences running 6.1 (or any beta versions that might be floating around).

    Update 2005/02/18:

    DirecTV has announced a 6.2 rollout for the Series2.0 models. It is expected that 6.2 will be very similar to the 6.1 software now running on the DirecTV R10 boxes.
    Last edited by alldeadhomiez; 02-18-2005 at 05:49 PM.

  2. #2
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    ADH, I think this question is under the auspices of this thread; feel free to tell me otherwise, and I'll move it.

    My question is two parts:
    1) What are the new copy-retention aspects? I assume since we've heard about 6.x, that some people have been testing it, which makes me think people have tried extracting video from it (i.e. via mfs_ftp, tytools), so have they had any problems?
    2) Is there any indication that we wont be able to manually upgrade from 3.x to 6.x via the standard method (of killing the reboot in installSw.tcl, copying over a killhdinitrd'd kernal, copy over the .author file and relevant hack folders)?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Only Druid
    ADH, I think this question is under the auspices of this thread; feel free to tell me otherwise, and I'll move it.

    My question is two parts:
    1) What are the new copy-retention aspects? I assume since we've heard about 6.x, that some people have been testing it, which makes me think people have tried extracting video from it (i.e. via mfs_ftp, tytools), so have they had any problems?
    2) Is there any indication that we wont be able to manually upgrade from 3.x to 6.x via the standard method (of killing the reboot in installSw.tcl, copying over a killhdinitrd'd kernal, copy over the .author file and relevant hack folders)?
    Not sure on 1, but if this upgrade is intended to work on machines at 3.1.1e, there should be no problems as long as you remember to upgrade the kernel (from 2.4.4 to (most likely) 2.4.20).

    Given that upgrading to 5.x broke a lot of stuff, I have little reason to believe that 6.x will be any better in that respect. For this reason I run 4.0 whenever possible.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by alldeadhomiez
    Series2.0 DirecTV combo units are likely to upgrade to software version 6.1 in the next few months. As most DTiVo owners here will probably be running version 4.x in the near future, I will summarize the pros and cons of taking the 6.1 upgrade over remaining at 4.x:
    Can you explain "combo" unit? Are you referring to Dtivo or a Dtivo with dvd (if such an animal exists)?

    Why do you think we'll be running 4.x in the near future, the bounty or is there a scheduled push?

    Are you saying that DirecTV will be skipping 4.x and going straight to 6.1? I'm just trying to get my arms around what you're discussing. The beta fellow was discussing an SD-DVR40, which is a simple Dtivo unit. Thanks.

  5. #5
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    Seeing as there wont be an eventswitcher anymore in the future, almost all hacks as we currently know them are going to have to change dramatically. (almost to the point of no longer using TCL scripts?)

    Since most of the current tivoweb modules will no longer work, this would probably be a good reason to finally discontinue development of the old tivoweb and switch over to tivoweb-ng.

    Also, if 5.x is any indication, the only way we'll ever be able to have a "nophone" option is via patching tivoapp. (Possibly 3M'ing the spigot?)

    WRT the DRM crap, that is probably the stuff where they delete PPVs after only so long and activate macrovision protections so that you can't copy the PPVs to tape, etc. Too bad we already have direct digital video extraction...the only question is how difficult they might make it for us to get around the encryption scheme. Since the encryption does involve a software passthrough, I somehow doubt it will be that difficult to get around, assuming they even tried to complicate it more.
    Last edited by AlphaWolf; 11-15-2004 at 05:05 PM.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman
    Are you saying that DirecTV will be skipping 4.x and going straight to 6.1?
    Most likely. It seems that everything coming out of TiVo lately, except for 3.1.5, has been a 5.x derivative. I do not think they plan to base any future releases off 4.x (except maybe cosmetic upgrades, like 4.0.1b-02).

    Unfortunately, I haven't found a single reason to use 5.x+ over 4.x on a non-DVD Series2.0 model. From what I can tell, 6.1 will be even less appealing. One might view 6.1 as the "Windows ME" of DTiVo upgrades.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by alldeadhomiez
    One might view 6.1 as the "Windows ME" of DTiVo upgrades.
    holy cow, i think i'll just stick with "windows 3.1.1c" then!

    ronny

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    Ok, I'm splitting off some of the basic questions into a newbie thread. To summarize:

    • A "SD Series2.0 combo unit" is either a Uma4 or Uma6 DTiVo (i.e. Series 2 TiVo with two DirecTV tuners, usb ports, and a model number != R10). If you are running 3.1.1* now, that's what you have.
    • If you want to block this upgrade: use upgradesoftware=false in the bootpage or in rc.sysinit (in your active partition), run fixsub/fakecall, and avoid phoning home to TiVo (phone line or network). You are probably already doing this if you are running a hacked DTiVo, as there is no need to dial in for guide data.
    • If your locals are on 72.5W or 95W, you have three options: run 3.1.1e, run 6.1 (when available), or backport the 3.1.1c->3.1.1e changes to 4.x. If not, I would stick with 4.x.
    • There is no guarantee that 6.1 will support the HD units (HR10-250). There are many indications that only SD (standard definition) units will be supported for the time being.
    • You should be able to upgrade to 6.1 from 3.x or 4.x. However, if you are using the brain-dead "Sleeper ISO" partition setup, it will require a fair amount of fussing.
    Last edited by alldeadhomiez; 11-17-2004 at 12:42 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by alldeadhomiez
    Ok, I'm splitting off some of the basic questions into a newbie thread. To summarize:

    <SNIP>
    [*]You should be able to upgrade to 6.1 from 3.x or 4.x. However, if you are using the brain-dead "Sleeper ISO" partition setup, it will require a fair amount of fussing.[/list]
    Two comments. First of all, it isn't all that difficult to switch from a two partition Monte to killhdinitrd. Determine the active partition set, load a new kernel, reset boot parameters, and flip the bootpage. 10 minutes tops, and you don't even have to pull the drive. Getting rid of the outdated hacks will take longer.

    Second, wouldn't it be more correct to blame the person who came up with that Monte arrangement?

    PlainBill
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlainBill
    Two comments. First of all, it isn't all that difficult to switch from a two partition Monte to killhdinitrd. Determine the active partition set, load a new kernel, reset boot parameters, and flip the bootpage. 10 minutes tops, and you don't even have to pull the drive. Getting rid of the outdated hacks will take longer.
    Compared with setups that support upgrades automatically, it's a real drag. For instance, if you keep your boot kernel in hda5 and "main root" on hda1 or hda2, the only thing you need to worry about is making sure that bootpage doesn't alter the kernel command line or the active kernel partition#.

    Second, wouldn't it be more correct to blame the person who came up with that Monte arrangement?
    I believe the "monte with redundant romfs" idea was a Sleeper invention. Long before his ISO even came out, many of us were chain loading a new kernel straight off the root partition.

    Edit: I have been informed that the redundant romfs came from this post, not from Sleeper.

    Either way, it's a relic left over from the early days of experimenting with monte-mips, and really shouldn't exist on any system that wasn't set up during that timeframe.
    Last edited by alldeadhomiez; 11-17-2004 at 02:38 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by alldeadhomiez
    <SNIP>

    Either way, it's a relic left over from the early days of experimenting with monte-mips, and really shouldn't exist on any system that wasn't set up during that timeframe.
    And THAT I agree with 90%. It shouldn't exist on ANY system. It's too darn easy to upgrade to killhdinitrd.

    PlainBill
    There's a difference between needing help, and just being plain ole' lazy.

    "You cannot teach a man anything. You can only help him find it for himself." Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

    HR20-700 with 2 TB, HR22-100, HR22-100, HR22-100, HR23-100 all running 0x5cd and networked.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by alldeadhomiez
    In addition, it is worth noting that binary patches (such as the HMO superpatch) are likely to differ between the Series2.0 build and the Series2.5 build of any given software version. Since most of us will be running 4.x whenever possible (on Series2.0 boxes), it is likely that 6.1/Series2.5 patches will be available more readily than 6.1/Series2.0 patches.
    Are you talking about official patches or patches to upgrade to 6.1?

    I would think that if more people are using 4.x they would develop patches for 4.x -> 6.1 ....

  13. #13
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    While 6.1 has yet to come down, has there been any indication that you HAVE to move to the upgrade for normal use of the DTivo? I'm prefectly content staying at 3.1.1e until DTV moves to MPEG-4 or something else that may make the tuner obsolete, but I'm wondering if or when I'll have no choice but to go to 6.x.

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