How similar are 6.2 and 7.1?

[pab]

Yes, I know the obvious answer: 7.1 is for standalones, 6.2 for DirecTivos. What I'm talking about is software level.

Would I be correct in assuming that most of the basic problems being had with 7.1 are also there in 6.2, and as we find work-arounds for one (like not needing an event switcher) we'll be set for the other?

For example: I don't have a spare Series 2 unit to play with at the moment (hoping to have the spare cash to pick one up before too long), but I'm wondering whether we might be able to drop a 6.2 dssapp into a 7.1 install on a DirecTivo (monte-ing from a killhdinitrd'd 3.1.5 kernel), or are there likely to be fundamental differences between the two, so that we're going to have to have a separate development track to hack 6.x?

[Gunnyman]

Yes, I know the obvious answer: 7.1 is for standalones, 6.2 for DirecTivos. What I'm talking about is software level.

Would I be correct in assuming that most of the basic problems being had with 7.1 are also there in 6.2, and as we find work-arounds for one (like not needing an event switcher) we'll be set for the other?

For example: I don't have a spare Series 2 unit to play with at the moment (hoping to have the spare cash to pick one up before too long), but I'm wondering whether we might be able to drop a 6.2 dssapp into a 7.1 install on a DirecTivo (monte-ing from a killhdinitrd'd 3.1.5 kernel), or are there likely to be fundamental differences between the two, so that we're going to have to have a separate development track to hack 6.x?

It is doubtful that any software version after 4.0(besides 6.2) has the connection between dssapp and tivoapp.
Just dropping dssapp in there won't work since there are no hooks to it in the tivoapp itself.
I imagine (and I have no idea) that 6.2 will be easy to bring HMO to since alot of it is already there, but why bother since 4.0 does everyhing we need it to do? I don't really see alot of effort going into hacking 6.2 unless it's to bring HMO to an R10.

[The Only Druid]

I don't really see alot of effort going into hacking 6.2 unless it's to bring HMO to an R10.

I disagree. I assume you've noticed that users with 4.x on standalones are having guide problems, etc. that are only resolved by upgrading to 7.x? I expect DTV to create such problems soon.

When 6.2 is fully rolled out, what incentive does DirecTV have to maintain support for 3.1.1x? None. In fact, they have a DIRECT incentive to only support 6.2, since among other things the feature set is different. We [the hacking community] have benefited from the fact that so long as we're using the most current version of the Tivo OS, DirecTV/Tivo cannot exclude us by force except by basically hurting their other customers. Now, w/ 6.2 being so distinct from 3.1.1x, they have the opportunity.

Thankfully, I believe there is already a tivoapp patch for 6.2, mfs_ftp for extraction (but not insertion yet), and of course inline monte allows us to hack in general (and should, in theory, not stop working any time soon). But We still dont have a viable tserver (for tytool), nor mfs_ftp insertion, tivowebplus or fixsub. (correct me if I'm wrong, please).

My bet is this: inside of 2 months, 3.1.1x isn't going to be receiving guide data. A lot of people (myself included) haven't installed 4.x because they dont care enough about folders (I offload stuff for temporary storage on my PC, then archive to DVD) or HMO, but we'll be forced to upgrade either to 4.x or 6.x if this happens. Frankly, I'd rather be running a DirecTivo version of the software, just because it seems 6.2 runs more efficiently, as well as being the proper version if I ever HAVE to let it phone home to DirecTV (i.e. some troubleshooting thing, whatever).

[bjp999]

The HDTivo (HR10-250) is not being upgraded to 6.2, at least not at this time. It runs on 3.1.5e.

bjp

[AbMagFab]

The Series 1 DTivo's will never be upgraded and are running 3.0.1c2 (or something like that). Unlikely DirecTV will actively disenfranchise all Series 1 users any time soon.

The next step for hacking on a DTivo is 7.x, not for TivoToGo, but for the Tivo SDK thing so we can run those applications (which might be cool). Not a huge driving force though.

[pab]

The Series 1 DTivo's will never be upgraded and are running 3.0.1c2 (or something like that). Unlikely DirecTV will actively disenfranchise all Series 1 users any time soon.

Unless they "upgrade" them all to the new NDS boxes. Or to R10's, which they're already giving away for free, practically.

Remember, however, that we DO have a ticking time bomb on our hands, potentially. There are hooks in the software to automatically run a .tcl script included in a satellite download, regardless of the status of upgradesoftware. Once the 6.2 rollout has been done for a while, D* might decide that it's time to make sure everyone has the "benefits" of the new software, and throw the master switch. They've never done it before, but they have the incentive now. It's best to be prepared, and make sure we can hack 6.2 while we're hacking 7.1.

The next step for hacking on a DTivo is 7.x, not for TivoToGo, but for the Tivo SDK thing so we can run those applications (which might be cool). Not a huge driving force though.

I tend to agree. What I'm wondering is, can 6.2 benefit from some of the work being done with 7.1 on standalones right now? It looks like it will. When we have mfs_ftp able to insert (Hi, Riley) on 7.1, most likely that will solve the problem with 6.2 as well. Same for TivoWeb, I'll bet. If so, then with any luck there won't be much duplication of work.

And didn't someone say something about the hooks for dssapp still being in the 7.1 bootup? If so, TiVo may not have gone out of their way to delete DirecTV support from this update, which might even hold out hope for the post-contract world.

[DocTauri]

The hooks are in the boot sequence to load dssapp (/etc/rc.d/StageD_PreMfs/rc.Sequence_100.StartDssProcessor.Platform_*.sh). Just for fun, I put 7.1 on a spare drive, hacked it enough to get in, then put on 6.2's dssapp and dssappAV. Sorry, but still no go. It loads w/o a problem (unlike before with 3.x and 4.x dssapp's where it crashed), but still doesn't get past the "Almost there" screen. After boot is complete, PS shows 8 dssappAV's running, but still doesn't go further than the Almost There pic. Below is console output from the dssapp load until the boot is complete:

Loading Trinity dssapp
Look for debug board
/tvbin/dssappAV: DSS Interface Version 1.24, compiled on Nov 12 2004
Not loading ATSC processor for this platform
Loading irblast
Loading ideturbo
Loading fan
Loading therm
Loading TvBus router
Updating system clock
Time set to: Wed Mar  2 23:14:12 2005
Enabling local route
Setting TCP keepalive parameters
Checking for additional disk
Start fan control
First temperature parameters set:
  Terminal temp: 71
  Critical temp: 62
  Logging temp: 60
  Target temp: 50
  Lowest fan speed: 7
/tvbin/fancontrol is running in the background.
Starting TvLauncher
Waiting for launcher to start.
Launcher is running.
Scanning for phase2 repair scripts
Running boot Stage E_PreApplication scripts
Checking for database conversions
No upgrade to load
Not upgrading software
Scanning for phase3 repair scripts
Running boot Stage F_ApplicationLaunch scripts
Starting Services.
Microcode version is TiVo!
PCI: 00:0d.2 PCI cache line size set incorrectly (0 bytes) by BIOS/FW, correcting to 32
usb.c: USB device 2 (vend/prod 0x846/0x1040) is not claimed by any active driver.
Logger not initialized!  Logging to stdout:
TmkLogger: <133>Mar  2 23:14:42 TmkServer[204]: Enabling port 5353, protocol udp
Scanning for phase4 repair scripts
Running boot Stage G_PostApplication scripts
rc.sysinit is complete

Doc

[ds2ktj]

My bet is this: inside of 2 months, 3.1.1x isn't going to be receiving guide data. A lot of people (myself included) haven't installed 4.x because they dont care enough about folders (I offload stuff for temporary storage on my PC, then archive to DVD) or HMO, but we'll be forced to upgrade either to 4.x or 6.x if this happens. Frankly, I'd rather be running a DirecTivo version of the software, just because it seems 6.2 runs more efficiently, as well as being the proper version if I ever HAVE to let it phone home to DirecTV (i.e. some troubleshooting thing, whatever).

I disagree on this a little bit since there are still S1 Dtivos out there that won't be getting the upgrade. Are they going to force the S1s to get their guide data by a daily-call only? What about all the 3.X boxes that are still on shelves in stores will they not boot into at least a somewhat functional mode with aguide to get started?).