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Thread: Video at 480x480 in TyTool 10r4

  1. #16
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    When you get to the final authoring stage, you'll see the option. Assuming it's regular DVD-Lab, and not Studio or Pro.

    For what it's worth, I use the normal muxer all the time without issues.
    --
    Christopher D. Heer
    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar Wilde
    Perhaps, after all, America never has been discovered. I myself would say that it had merely been detected.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheer
    When you get to the final authoring stage, you'll see the option. Assuming it's regular DVD-Lab, and not Studio or Pro.

    For what it's worth, I use the normal muxer all the time without issues.
    Ok, thanks. I'm using the trial version of studio right now. A few questions about DVDlab:

    1. Will I have any difficultly using 480x480 Ty streams and normal 720x480 mpegs in the same project?

    2. Ty streams report that the GOP structure is too long. Is there a way to fix the GOP to make it DVD compliant even though the video is 480x480? I'd just like the chapters to function properly if at all possible.

    3. Is there a particular reason to choose one DVDlab version over another in terms of working with Ty streams?

    4. I saw that DVDlab 2 is being worked on. Any idea how far along this is in the development cycle?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Chapman
    Ok, thanks. I'm using the trial version of studio right now. A few questions about DVDlab:

    1. Will I have any difficultly using 480x480 Ty streams and normal 720x480 mpegs in the same project?
    I THINK you will need to use DVD-Lab Pro for that, as I think you need multiple VTS support. Don't quote me on that. I do know that you need multiple VTS support for different aspect ratios and different audio formats.
    2. Ty streams report that the GOP structure is too long. Is there a way to fix the GOP to make it DVD compliant even though the video is 480x480? I'd just like the chapters to function properly if at all possible.
    You can use VideoReDo to do that, but keep in mind that now you're going to be doing some re-encoding. For what it's worth, so long as I have checked "use frame indexing for better chapter accuracy" in the compile dialog I've never had an issue with the long GOPs.
    3. Is there a particular reason to choose one DVDlab version over another in terms of working with Ty streams?
    Regular DVD-Lab has the alternate muxing engine which I am told handles the Tivo streams better. However, I use the Pro version a lot when I need to mix aspect ratios or whatever and I've never had an issue. Beyond that, it's just a question of features.
    4. I saw that DVDlab 2 is being worked on. Any idea how far along this is in the development cycle?
    No idea.
    --
    Christopher D. Heer
    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar Wilde
    Perhaps, after all, America never has been discovered. I myself would say that it had merely been detected.

  4. #19
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    Very good answers Cheer.

    I used DVDlab standard then PRO, haven't used Studio but you can't use Standard and mix 480x480 and 720x480, the video is created in a single VTS.

    VideoReDo is a great tool and it can break long GOPs. Also mpeg-vcr can do that. Both will reencode every long GOP to create 2 or more new GOPs.

    I have used PRO for 480x480, 544x480 and 720x480 files without problems. At first PRO had some issues with mpeg files from tivos, that's why we used DVDlab Standard with alternate muxing, but the current PRO version can handle most ok.

    I think DVDlab version 2 will be only the PRO version, and it still take some months to finish (from what I read).

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheer
    For what it's worth, so long as I have checked "use frame indexing for better chapter accuracy" in the compile dialog I've never had an issue with the long GOPs.
    Thanks, that's helpful. What about the menu option, TOOLS - REWRITE GOP TIMECODE in DVDlab Studio? Does this also fix the issue or does it do something else related to GOP?

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Chapman
    Thanks, that's helpful. What about the menu option, TOOLS - REWRITE GOP TIMECODE in DVDlab Studio? Does this also fix the issue or does it do something else related to GOP?
    This option was added at my request, basically it recreates the GOP timecode in the file. A couple of years ago, when used TyTool to remove parts of the video, the GOP time suffer jumps, this make DVDlab put chapters at the wrong scenes. I used mpeg-vcr to fix the timecode but that function later was included in DVDlab.

    I don't know if this still is the case as I do less editing and I do it with VideoReDo now (it rewrites the GOP timecode also).

  7. #22
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    31 summing up

    Quote Originally Posted by bato
    This option was added at my request, basically it recreates the GOP timecode in the file. A couple of years ago, when used TyTool to remove parts of the video, the GOP time suffer jumps, this make DVDlab put chapters at the wrong scenes. I used mpeg-vcr to fix the timecode but that function later was included in DVDlab.

    I don't know if this still is the case as I do less editing and I do it with VideoReDo now (it rewrites the GOP timecode also).
    It's best to reset the timecode for each vob or mpeg to be used in the project before working with them. You can do that under "Tools" in DVDlab.

    Another thing is that there is a consistent 16 - 20 ms audio offset after ripping the vobs from tystream, I always advance audio by 20ms, (again using DVDlab) then add more for any sync errors in the original broadcast (common with TCM on DirecTV.)

    I find that even DVDlabPro 1.53 will fail to compile some Tivo projects during muxing, leaving a blank Video_TS directory, and that only the standard DVDlab will handle the vob in question. Unfortunately that means restarting the project since DVDlab and DVDlabPro .dals are not compatible. So I always use DVDlab for tystreams unless I really REALLY want to get in particular features of Pro such as multiaudio and Resume functions. DVDlabPro is used for all other projectss such as captures and the industrial videos and wedding videos I do for a living.

    Rewriting the GOP to get it to 15 frames is an option, but, beware, it makes the file up to 15% larger, plus it can, and often does, cause playback to be jerky in some software players.

    There is no benefit in changing headers to 720X480 for a 480X480 vob, it is in essence "lying" and many hardware players will choke, showing half the image, or just speckled dots, and menu graphics become screwed up. For 480X480 mpegs DVDlab and/Pro Project Properties should be set to D1, and yes 720X480 and 480X480 mpegs can be mixed in one vts. In fact that's done by default because the mpeg is 480X480 but the menu is 720X480 anyway.]

  8. #23
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    BustedSony,

    Thanks for the info. Great moniker by the way (even though I generally love Sony stuff.)

    I was planning on going with the DVDlab Pro (or possibly DVDlab Studio), but if the $99 version is better suited for Ty streams, I may have to reconsider my options there. Im assuming Id need a separate license for both pro and standard versions, correct? Youd think the higher priced option would include everything and not leave out the alternate muxing engine.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Chapman
    BustedSony,

    Thanks for the info. Great moniker by the way (even though I generally love Sony stuff.)

    I was planning on going with the DVDlab Pro (or possibly DVDlab Studio), but if the $99 version is better suited for Ty streams, I may have to reconsider my options there. Im assuming Id need a separate license for both pro and standard versions, correct? Youd think the higher priced option would include everything and not leave out the alternate muxing engine.
    I had a Sony XBR from 1983 that worked fine for 5 years then the picture tube became gassy. It was such a good set that I was reluctant to throw it away and was hoping a used or rebuilt picture tube would come along, since a new one was far too expensive compared with the price of a new set. So for many years that busted sony was sitting in the corner. <g>

    DVVlab Pro may go along for a couple of Tivo DVD projects, with four films on each etc. then the third DVD will fail, and the only cure is to rewrite GOP headers for whichever Vob is causing the problem, and that can cause the other problems listed. It's not easy to determine the problem vob. It's not necesarily the one that shows a "0-GOP." Thus considering all the films I'm getting I do have both versions of DVDlab. Yes they require separate licenses.

  10. #25
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    Would you say the final mpeg quality (after editing) is superior when it is outputted from TyTools or VideoReDo?

  11. #26
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    Since neither program is re-encoding (except at edit points) then I wouldn't imagine there's much difference either way. (Unless you do change the GOP lengths in VRD, in which case you will likely see the quality suffer a bit.)
    --
    Christopher D. Heer
    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar Wilde
    Perhaps, after all, America never has been discovered. I myself would say that it had merely been detected.

  12. #27
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    The way I make my DVD's from my DTiVo files is to transcode them using Canopus ProCoder 2.

    It takes a little time to run through but it gives you a lot of control on quality, bitrate and resolution.

    The resulting MPG is 100% DVD compliant and won't throw the audio out of sync (if you have your settings right).

  13. #28
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    The methods outlined using DVD-Lab require absolutely no transcoding. Most late model DVD players work fine with the 480x480 files generated by a DTivo so there's no need to transcode anything. SVCDs are 480x480 so anything that will play an SVCD will also play tyDVDs. Transcoding gains you nothing in picture quality since you can't make a silk purse etc. The original digital data will yield the best picture quality when used as is.

    Transcoding used to be the only option available when trying to play back tyDVDs on older DVD players since many of them choked on the 480x480 files or didn't like mpeg audio. With the way prices have plummeted for players there's no longer a need to get the disc to work with the player. It's just easier to get a player that's compatible with the DVDs, which is most any model on the market these days.

    I haven't visited this thread in a long while so I went back to the beginning to refresh my memory. I found it interesting that the OP was trying to use TMPG DVD Author to create his DVDs instead of using TyTools. Ironically, TyTools uses the DVD Author engine (or whatever it's called) as the authoring portion of jdiner's utility.
    Last edited by captain_video; 03-03-2007 at 06:27 PM.
    Please don't PM me or any other members looking for personal assistance. You'll do better by posting (after you've exhausted the search feature, of course) and taking advantage of the collective expertise of the membership instead of a single individual that may or may not be able to help you. Thank you and enjoy your stay at DDB!

  14. #29
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    I'm not real familiar with DVD-Lab, I'll have to look at it and see what kind of authoring options it has.

    Because of what I do with my DVD's I feel more comfortable transcoding them to DVD standard, I'll try DVD-lab though and see how that does. WHo makes DVD-Lab?

  15. #30
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    Please don't PM me or any other members looking for personal assistance. You'll do better by posting (after you've exhausted the search feature, of course) and taking advantage of the collective expertise of the membership instead of a single individual that may or may not be able to help you. Thank you and enjoy your stay at DDB!

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