Decisions, decisions.

[stevel]

"Hmo is enable now"???

[devildog]

I was anounced today at the CES in Vegas. Intel and DTV together using ViiV.
But you do not need ViiV to network the HR20.
Go to d*'s site and see for yourself..

Also here is a good link for the HR20 xxx.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=112.

[redfiver]

The Hr20 has a better picture then the D-Tivo.

Hmo is enable now and mrv is next.(ViiV)

There will be a package call DirectvToGo this spring.

Ota is alot sharper then D-Tivo and you can record it.

OTA is sharper? I don't necessarily think that's true. I thought the OTA picture is clearer on my HDTV than in my HR10 or HR20, but I think the HR10 is a bit clearer. Both can record OTA streams.

The biggest difference for me right now, is the HR20 doesn't have Dual Live Buffers, the HR10 does. But, the HR20 will get FSN-BA in HD for certain games, which is the other big deal for me, the HR10 will not (MPEG4 stream).

[devildog]

OTA is sharper? I don't necessarily think that's true. I thought the OTA picture is clearer on my HDTV than in my HR10 or HR20, but I think the HR10 is a bit clearer. Both can record OTA streams.

The biggest difference for me right now, is the HR20 doesn't have Dual Live Buffers, the HR10 does. But, the HR20 will get FSN-BA in HD for certain games, which is the other big deal for me, the HR10 will not (MPEG4 stream).

You have some good points there.

My OTA on the hr10 is a lot more picky than my Hr20.
The Hr20 OTA tuners Can get more channels and are more
crisper than my Hr10. My Hr10 OTA Locals whould drop
out alot and sometimes freeze.

[RYSmith315]

If you had a chance to install the "Elvis" update, the OTA issues have been corrected for the most part.

Pre-Elvis the signal showed 25-35% if it worked at all. Post-Elvis, I now get 75-95% on all channels.


Elvis went national on the west coast earlier this week but appears to have been halted due to reboot issues. I'm still running Elvis and have not had the reboot but I have seen more non-playable recording than previously.

[devildog]

Santa's helper was good to me this year. She brought me a HDTV. Now I need a HD-DVR to go with it. And there's the problem.

According to DirecTV's web site, a HR20-700 will cost $199 (including dish and installation). According to a csr, I will get the HDTV package free for 4 months. On the downside it is unhackable, does not run TiVo software, and doesn't record OTA HD YET (they promise it by the end of the year - but didn't specify which year). The csr 'thinks' they are in stock.

The other choice is the HR10-250. They're running $300 or so on eBay. Someone local is selling his for $400; I'm assuming I can beat the price down. I'll also need a new dish, or the 'C' lnb kit, about $15. It records OTA (important), is hackable (nice), and has TiVo software (very nice), but I'm wondering how long it's going to take to get stable software.

Any thoughts on the choices?

PlainBill

Have you decided yet???

[a-town]

One important consideration: UI speed. The improvement from 3.1.1e to 6.2 was very welcome on my SD receivers. How does the speed of the UI on the HR20 compare?

Well, as a former DTiVo 6.2 user that just recently (last Thursday) got the HR-20 to go with my new HDTV (my first) I somewhat disagree with the posts in this thread that say the HR-20's UI speed is faster than the DTiVo 6.2's. While the guide is snappier than the DTiVo, other parts seem slower or about the same.

Overall I'm pretty happy with the HR-20. The integrated OTA tuner is cool, though the first thing I recorded was the Colts/Ravens game and when I came back it wasn't on my recordings list. When I went to the to-do list it showed up as "recording" but it never appeared on my list and I couldn't watch it. I have since read a lot on the DBSTalk forums and if I'm reading it correctly, it sounds like there's a bug with recording shows with extended time (I generally add an hour or so to the non-NFL Sunday Ticket football games). So maybe that's what bit me this time. However, I'm now running the new 119 "Elvis2" software and plan on testing an OTA and satellite recording with an extra 30 minutes on the end of them to make sure they show up. But the way the OTA channels integrate right into the guide data and how you can switch between the them is seamless and much better than I expected it would be.

Oh, why am I using OTA instead of through the satellite? The local CBS station (WISH) here in Indy is not available via satellite, that's why. They are the only one in the Indy area like that, not sure what the issue is. Of course, OTA may end up being better quality, but I can't really tell much of a difference and my OTA antenna is crappy anyway...

My two cents...

Oh, one other cool thing about the HR-20 is the RF remote. I had no clue it had an RF remote/receiver until I was browsing the remote setup menu and saw the option to enable it. Not that I have a need to change channels from another room, but not having to aim over my coffee table is pretty sweet. Too bad my AV receiver is still IR only (for volume control) but hey, it's better than no RF.

[PlainBill]

Have you decided yet???

Yes.

PlainBill

[alfonzotan]

I wouldn't even consider giving up my HR10 until and unless DirecTV adds more HD channels, and I'm talking above and beyond locals. I'm fortunate enough to live 10 miles from a mass of metro transmitters, so I'm already getting all the networks OTA and 5x5. In that situation, why would I switch to an un-hackable (at present, anyway) MP4 box? Gets me nothing right now, and given that there aren't all that many HD "cable" networks to begin with, it's going to take quite an increase in desireable programming to even nudge me towards a change.

[devildog]

I wouldn't even consider giving up my HR10 until and unless DirecTV adds more HD channels, and I'm talking above and beyond locals. I'm fortunate enough to live 10 miles from a mass of metro transmitters, so I'm already getting all the networks OTA and 5x5. In that situation, why would I switch to an un-hackable (at present, anyway) MP4 box? Gets me nothing right now, and given that there aren't all that many HD "cable" networks to begin with, it's going to take quite an increase in desireable programming to even nudge me towards a change.

Dtv should have a 100 HD Mpeg4 channels by the end of the summer.

I think the HR10 is slowly sinking, This looks like the last year for Mpeg2 HD.

But who knows???

[rbiro]

The HR20 doesn't use the phone line for software updates. It's all done by satellite. A phone line would be useful only for caller ID and PPV orders.

Is a phone line required for Guided Setup?
If one does not care about caller-ID and one can order PPV outside of the box, over the web, is there any hard requirement for a phone line?

When I first setup my Series2 DirecTivo, I had to run a landline from my neighbor to do guided setup. Is that required with the HR-20?

[stevel]

My understanding is that the HR20 does not require a phone line at all.

[alfonzotan]

Dtv should have a 100 HD Mpeg4 channels by the end of the summer.

I think the HR10 is slowly sinking, This looks like the last year for Mpeg2 HD.

But who knows???

Okay, but what's on those 100 channels? Not counting the old Voom channels that are locked into Dish, there are maybe a dozen cable networks actually broadcasting in HDTV, and some of those are premiums and/or non-satellite to begin with. If those "100 channels" are all various locals and/or sports subscriptions (I don't have or want any), that does nothing for me--I'm already getting every local broadcast 'net in HD from OTA. What else are they going to add, Cinemax HD?

I certainly don't think the MPEG2 boxes are going to be viable forever, but there just isn't that much HDTV content out there right now, and there isn't much new (at least not that I've heard of) coming on-line in the next year or so.

[PlainBill]

Okay, but what's on those 100 channels? Not counting the old Voom channels that are locked into Dish, there are maybe a dozen cable networks actually broadcasting in HDTV, and some of those are premiums and/or non-satellite to begin with. If those "100 channels" are all various locals and/or sports subscriptions (I don't have or want any), that does nothing for me--I'm already getting every local broadcast 'net in HD from OTA. What else are they going to add, Cinemax HD?

I certainly don't think the MPEG2 boxes are going to be viable forever, but there just isn't that much HDTV content out there right now, and there isn't much new (at least not that I've heard of) coming on-line in the next year or so.

You ask some interesting questions, but don't seem to be aware the answers are right in front of you.

First of all, I believe the official DirecTV statement is 'We will be launching a pair of satellites this year that give us the capability of up to 70 national HD channels.' As you implied, channel capability does not necessarily translate immeadiately to content. So where will the content come from?

First of all, take a look at the channels already available in HD. IIRC, HBO and Showtime each have one HD channel available. DirecTV has 1 HD PPV channel available, I'm not sure about Dish.

Even if you have no interest in sports, others do, and ESPN is not ignoring that source of revenue. Neither is the NFL, and MLB, NBA, and NASCAR are sure to jump on the bandwagon IF they think they can make money that way.

At this moment, there are several things blocking the addition of HD channels. They can be summarized as viewers, distribution channels, and cost. Both DirecTV and Dish are adding satellites capable of in excess of 50 HD channels; that provides the distribution channels. HDTV receiver sales are increasing as costs drop - and costs are dropping rapidly. Production costs ARE a consideration, but that is not a show-stopper.

Twenty some years ago when we first got cable, they carried only 1 channel of each of the major premium networks (Showtime, HBO, Cinemax, etc.). Now there are over 30 such channels on DirecTV. The 8 HBO channels cost less in 'real' dollars than the single HBO channel did 20 years ago. And note that the production costs for most of their programming is nil - movies are already in HD format.

So what will fill the new channels? I'm no expert, but I expect to see both east and west coast premium HD channels mirroring the SD programming. The half dozen or more free movie channels (AMC, TMC, and FMC, Lifetime, Hallmark, etc) will certainly jump on the opportunity. Of course, the sports channels will be joining in. Expect a HD History channel. And sadly, expect HD shopping channels, and HD 'Christian' channels. (Pat Robertson certainly won't be able to resist pontificating in HD). And if you screw up, we might even be able to watch you on HD Court TV.

PlainBill

[alfonzotan]

You ask some interesting questions, but don't seem to be aware the answers are right in front of you.

First of all, I believe the official DirecTV statement is 'We will be launching a pair of satellites this year that give us the capability of up to 70 national HD channels.' As you implied, channel capability does not necessarily translate immeadiately to content. So where will the content come from?

First of all, take a look at the channels already available in HD. IIRC, HBO and Showtime each have one HD channel available. DirecTV has 1 HD PPV channel available, I'm not sure about Dish.

Even if you have no interest in sports, others do, and ESPN is not ignoring that source of revenue. Neither is the NFL, and MLB, NBA, and NASCAR are sure to jump on the bandwagon IF they think they can make money that way.

At this moment, there are several things blocking the addition of HD channels. They can be summarized as viewers, distribution channels, and cost. Both DirecTV and Dish are adding satellites capable of in excess of 50 HD channels; that provides the distribution channels. HDTV receiver sales are increasing as costs drop - and costs are dropping rapidly. Production costs ARE a consideration, but that is not a show-stopper.

Twenty some years ago when we first got cable, they carried only 1 channel of each of the major premium networks (Showtime, HBO, Cinemax, etc.). Now there are over 30 such channels on DirecTV. The 8 HBO channels cost less in 'real' dollars than the single HBO channel did 20 years ago. And note that the production costs for most of their programming is nil - movies are already in HD format.

So what will fill the new channels? I'm no expert, but I expect to see both east and west coast premium HD channels mirroring the SD programming. The half dozen or more free movie channels (AMC, TMC, and FMC, Lifetime, Hallmark, etc) will certainly jump on the opportunity. Of course, the sports channels will be joining in. Expect a HD History channel. And sadly, expect HD shopping channels, and HD 'Christian' channels. (Pat Robertson certainly won't be able to resist pontificating in HD). And if you screw up, we might even be able to watch you on HD Court TV.

PlainBill

No doubt all that is correct, but there certainly isn't any rush among the non-premium channels to "go HD" right now. UniversalHD is famously a money-loser, for instance, which is inhibiting NBC Universal from pushing out more HD networks. I'd love to see Sci-Fi HD, HistoryHD, Turner ClassicsHD, etc., but as of now, those aren't even vapor. Not only do they not exist (yet--I'm sure they will at some as-yet unknown point), they haven't even been announced as "coming soon." The extra HD capacity DirecTV is putting in right now is going to go to locals, premiums, and sports subscriptions for the time being. As I said, that's stuff I don't need. As in all things, your own mileage may well vary.

As for the sports channels, I'm fortunate enough to live where I can get all the sports programming I want without buying additional service (mostly college football; I don't have any interest in pro sports or NASCAR, but obviously others do, and fine for them). For those who *do* want the additional sports programming, obviously going to the MP4 box is a more pressing option than it is for me.

I'd love to see DirecTV come out and announce what kind of content is actually going to be available in all that extra capacity, but so far, they haven't said much of anything about it, other than promising lots of locals. That tells me they really don't have much new to offer in the near future--which isn't really their fault. There still just isn't much out there in HD.