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Thread: Is there now something better/easier than TyTool 10r4?

  1. #1
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    Is there now something better/easier than TyTool 10r4?

    Iíve been using TyTool 10r4 for extraction-frame editing for a few years now and have done authoring in DVDlab Pro. Is TyTool still the best way to go for editing and mpeg conversion or is there now something better, especially in terms of editing out commercials (sometimes this is "blocky" in TyTool), audio sync issues and ease of use.

    Iíve heard some things about VideoRedo, but didnít know much about it. Thanks in advance for any advice that you may have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Chapman View Post
    ...in terms of editing out commercials (sometimes this is "blocky" in TyTool), audio sync issues and ease of use.
    This is to be expected. Tytool "broke" over a year ago since jdiner has not maintained it. Try TySuite J for extracting/mux'ing. Also, give VideoRedo a chance, it's well worth the cost IMO.

  3. #3
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    VideoReDo is the editor of choice for many people these days. TyTools was fine if you were looking for a free solution but it was a bit cumbersome to use. VideoReDo is a complete package that not only edits but it will convert any mpeg2 file to any other mpeg2 format. It also has lots of other tools that make it worthwhile to own.
    Please don't PM me or any other members looking for personal assistance. You'll do better by posting (after you've exhausted the search feature, of course) and taking advantage of the collective expertise of the membership instead of a single individual that may or may not be able to help you. Thank you and enjoy your stay at DDB!

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    I'll check out Video Redo for our needs.

    Is there a better alternative to TyTool just for downloading the Ty files off the Tivo before the Video Redo import or should I stick with TyTool for downloading only?

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    There are other alternatives for downloading but I still use TyTools for transferring files to my PC from my S3 Tivos. TySuiteJ seems to be the favorite at the moment but a lot of folks also use mfs_ftp.

    Quote Originally Posted by jt1134 View Post
    This is to be expected. Tytool "broke" over a year ago since jdiner has not maintained it. Try TySuite J for extracting/mux'ing. Also, give VideoRedo a chance, it's well worth the cost IMO.
    I wouldn't say it broke but rather it just hasn't kept up with the changing technology. VideoReDo does a much better job at editing and processing the files so I'd assume that Josh just threw in the towel and realized he couldn't come up with a better product than what's already available commercially, at least not without reinventing the wheel. I take my hat off to Josh because he created a tool that we all used and rarely received any compensation for the uncounted hours he poured into the program.

    TyTools was originally developed because there were very few tools in existance, if any, that could work with the oddball mpeg files produced by a Tivo. Since then, VideoReDo was introduced and the rest is history. Josh had visions of creating an all-in-one tool for extracting, editing, and authoring ty files to DVD. He accomplished that task but now there are other third party apps that do as good or better a job than TyTools. It is still a great app for extracting files, with some caveats for HDTivos, although it works surprisingly well with S3 Tivo files with no size limitations like it has with S2 files.
    Last edited by captain_video; 02-21-2008 at 02:40 PM.
    Please don't PM me or any other members looking for personal assistance. You'll do better by posting (after you've exhausted the search feature, of course) and taking advantage of the collective expertise of the membership instead of a single individual that may or may not be able to help you. Thank you and enjoy your stay at DDB!

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    You really have to hand it Josh he really paved the way. I've have a very large amount of time into TySuiteJ, but I don't think it's even a fourth of what Josh put into TyTool. There's a lot of stuff in TyTool that I couldn't even imagine doing.

    As for reason he got out of it. Here's my list of guesses...
    1. One of my biggest pet peeves is answering questions that are in the documentation, over and over.
    2. Lots of work and people around you asking, "Why are you doing this for free?"
    3. Major life changes. Sounds like get got married in there somewhere. Coding every free minute really gets on your wife's nerves. Trust me.
    4. Just got sick of it. Kind of been there done that, got the T-shirt syndrome.
    5. He really peaked out and there wasn't a lot of low hanging fruit left. That just leaves bug fixes and minor changes that take a lot of work. Nobody likes to work on bug fixes. It's a lot of time and little reward.
    6. TyTool did what he need it to do. He was done. It's kind of hard to write code to do stuff you don't care about. There's a name for that. It's a job. I wrote TySuiteJ because TyTool didn't not. I'm not a big DVD person. I like my media streamer. Lot of people ask me about DVD support. Don't want it, don't care, won't get done (also me not so smart to do that: IFO and NAV packs, yuck).
    Last edited by dburckh; 02-21-2008 at 03:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
    TyTools was originally developed because there were very few tools in existance, if any, that could work with the oddball mpeg files produced by a Tivo. Since then, VideoReDo was introduced and the rest is history
    In the name of history...

    For re-muxing of HD TY streams, my tools were the only working solution for about 3 years there. Tytools was never designed for HD, and it showed - it really was never worth even trying for HD OTA streams.

    With my tools, hdemux+mplex was always problematic, in hindsight I probably never should have bothered with mplex. It proved too hard to get mplex to do the right thing with non-dvd compliant mpeg. But with tytompg things have been a lot better. It works well with videoredo, as does s3tots. As for videoredo, it's a good tool but not a complete solution as it does not handle TY directly.

    Yes, lack of TY support is not such a big deal anymore with TTG working for most people's tivos. Videoredo can be thought of as a complete solution if one is simply sticking with .tivo files (with tivo sanctioned DRM removal from those files).

  8. #8
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    I just downloaded the trial version of Video Redo. When I try to import a *.ty file I'm getting an error that it's not supported. Is there something I need to do before importing a ty file directly from the DirecTivo?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Chapman View Post
    I just downloaded the trial version of Video Redo. When I try to import a *.ty file I'm getting an error that it's not supported. Is there something I need to do before importing a ty file directly from the DirecTivo?
    You need to convert to mpeg with either tytompg or s3tots for s3 models, although I believe bcc's most recent version of tytompg supports s3 files. VRD doesn't support .ty files directly (although it does support .tivo files).
    ScanMan --> Just another Tivo hacker...
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcc View Post
    As for videoredo, it's a good tool but not a complete solution as it does not handle TY directly.
    A while back, Dan over on the VRD forums expressed the willingness to work with someone to build a TY input plug-in for VideoReDo. I volunteered to give it a go, but I just haven't found the time to devote to it. I also lack much of the knowledge and talent which would compound the time contraints. Just throwing that out there - if you have free time, I'm sure you have the talent.
    Last edited by phat_bastard; 02-25-2008 at 01:21 PM.
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  11. #11
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    An S3 pluggin for VideoRedo would be a walk in the park. I wrote some alpha Java to convert S3Ty to TS. It looks like the PAT, PMT and PCR are missing in the S3 ty. Here's the code to convert an S3 stream to .ts VDR will read.
    Code:
    	public static void main(String args[]) {
    		String sample="SDCC";
    		String inFileName="H:/test Tys/series3/"+sample+".ty";
    		String outFileName="C:/test_"+sample+".ts";
    		byte buffer[]=new byte[128*1024];
    		try {
    			FileInputStream in=new FileInputStream(inFileName);
    			FileOutputStream out=new FileOutputStream(outFileName);
    			for (int bytes;in.read(buffer)==buffer.length;) {
    				if (!TyPesDemuxer.isTivoPartId(buffer)) {
    					int offset=(int)Util.get32(buffer, 8);
    					int len=(int)Util.get32(buffer, 12);
    					out.write(buffer, offset, len);
    				}
    			}
    			out.close();
    			in.close();
    		} catch (IOException e) {
    			// TODO Auto-generated catch block
    			e.printStackTrace();
    		}
    	}
    TyPesDemuxer.isTivoPartId just skips the Ty part header block. It checks the first 4 bytes of the file against a constant.
    get32 gets a 32 byte long. It should be a UInt, but Java doesn't support unsigned primitives.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dburckh View Post
    An S3 pluggin for VideoRedo would be a walk in the park. I wrote some alpha Java to convert S3Ty to TS. It looks like the PAT, PMT and PCR are missing in the S3 ty.
    PAT&PMT tables are not included, tho the equivalent info is available in more obscure places (see how s3tots gets the PIDs from the TY). The PCR certainly is included, again see s3tots.

    s3tots converts ty to ts in C code, which is a lot faster than anything java will do, so I don't see the point in reinventing this in java.
    s3tots is so light-weight it could be built into mfs-utils or tserver/vserver directly if streaming is the goal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dburckh View Post
    Here's the code to convert an S3 stream to .ts VDR will read.
    Also, videoredo already works quite well with s3tots output (as do transport-stream aware media players).

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    Quote Originally Posted by bcc View Post
    PAT&PMT tables are not included, tho the equivalent info is available in more obscure places (see how s3tots gets the PIDs from the TY). The PCR certainly is included, again see s3tots.
    I'll have a look.
    Quote Originally Posted by bcc View Post
    s3tots converts ty to ts in C code, which is a lot faster than anything java will do, so I don't see the point in reinventing this in java.
    s3tots is so light-weight it could be built into mfs-utils or tserver/vserver directly if streaming is the goal.
    I beg to differ. In my tests my version 3 muxer is about 40% faster than tytompg. I finally got NIO working and it's screaming fast now. This is assuming an IO bound environment. Even from a CPU standpoint the gap isn't that big. I've seen several articles comparing the two and Java can be about 80% the speed of C. This is due to Java being compiled down to C by the JIT. I will admit if you don't have a JIT it's painfully slow.

    I have no doubt that your code is more efficient from a processing standpoint. Further, I think you do a better job with AC3 streams. Under certain scenarios this has it's advantages, but on the typical machine today it's really isn't noticable.

    You are probably right about the PCR info. My TsAnalyzer tool probably did recognize it because there was no PAT to identify the PCR stream.

    As to the why, I think you have to look at the bigger picture. If this is integrated in TySuiteJ version 3 you get a lot more that just muxing.
    Last edited by dburckh; 02-25-2008 at 10:09 PM. Reason: Added comment about the merits of BCC's work

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    Quote Originally Posted by dburckh View Post
    I beg to differ. In my tests my version 3 muxer is about 40% faster than tytompg.
    Last we "talked" I was begged to make tytompg work natively on the tivo, as your solution was way too slow and resource intensive, and tytompg worked much faster. Likewise tytompg should take less cpu on a desktop than any java solution, if not there is a bug going on.

    In any case, this discussion was about s3tots; in which case all the complexity of a remuxer is extraneous, and it's even less plausible that a java solution would be as fast. Not that performance is everything; I know that I value my time a lot more than my CPU's.
    Quote Originally Posted by dburckh View Post
    I finally got NIO working and it's screaming fast now. This is assuming an IO bound environment. Even from a CPU standpoint the gap isn't that big. I've seen several articles comparing the two and Java can be about 80% the speed of C. This is due to Java being compiled down to C by the JIT. I will admit if you don't have a JIT it's painfully slow.

    I have no doubt that your code is more efficient from a processing standpoint. Further, I think you do a better job with AC3 streams. Under certain scenarios this has it's advantages, but on the typical machine today it's really isn't noticable.
    You've totally lost me in claiming you have something faster and then claiming you're less efficient. In any case you're welcome to learn with your own solutions of course. In the mean time, s3tots has been working solidly for over a year now.
    Quote Originally Posted by dburckh View Post
    You are probably right about the PCR info.
    Why yes, thanks, I am
    Quote Originally Posted by dburckh View Post
    As to the why, I think you have to look at the bigger picture. If this is integrated in TySuiteJ version 3 you get a lot more that just muxing.
    In the bigger picture, for s3s, it would be easy to extract directly in transport stream format. Extraction that doesn't involve adding an extra java dependency and processing step is preferable in my opinion. Integrating s3 ty functionality into videredo would not even be very interesting if the extraction tools simply exported standard transport streams directly. Streaming from the tivo in a standard format falls out from such a solution.

    Already the extraction procedure for s3s is working and rather straightforward. Yes more could be done on the usability side, and java is one way of providing ease of use. On the other hand the user base is quite small, so the benefit of working on usability is dubious. And if you make it any easier Hollywood reporters might catch on that the do-not-copy flag on the premium content is not working

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