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Thread: 9.4 on S3/HD?

  1. #31
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    perspective

    I can see the logic behind all the backing up and fail-safe procedures that everyone does. That's something I would do with data that I consider to be irreplaceable, like personal data on my PCs and laptops. But the Tivo software (and certainly the recordings) I think of as "transient" data - there's nothing unique about it and copies of it exist in any number of places.

    From a cost-benefit analysis perspective, it's "cheaper" for me to simply save the upgrade slices and to hack the drive in-place without extensive testing than it is to pull the drive, make a full virgin backup of each software version, test the new software and finally re-hack. While taking the "full backup" route will save me time in the event of a catastrophic drive failure it costs me much more time for each upgrade. And even having a full backup of my hacked drive won't save me much more time than starting from scratch with the original drive would anyway. (Plus, skipping all the drive-pulling and backing up allows me to start an upgrade as little as 30 minutes before primetime without too much fear of missing any recordings.)

    Anyway... to each his own. There's certainly nothing wrong with being overly cautious, but if you consider that this isn't exactly your tax return data or family photo albums we're dealing with here you can see how a little time savings over absolute data security might be worth it.

    (Of course, if I had lgkahn's problem of 1 dead drive per year I might think about making an interim backup occasionally. I'll probably regret saying this but I have yet to experience a drive failure in all my years of Tivo ownership. Where do you keep your Tivos lgkahn? On a trampoline? )

    -psxboy
    TCD652160 TivoHD
    1TB
    11.0n.J1-01-2-652

  2. #32
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    Obviously, everyone has different views about how they go about hacking and updating their Tivos. That's one of the great things about this hobby. Depending on how deep you want to get into learning Linux, the possibilities are endless. I'm no Linux guru so I tend to try and keep things simple (i.e., the KISS principle). I've been hacking my Tivos pretty much the same way ever since I got my first HR112 SA Tivo that had a whopping 14 hours of recording capacity. I still remember pouring over the lengthy threads at the AVSForums and rejoicing when they developed Dylan's Boot Disk and BlessTiVo so I could finally upgrade the hard drive.

    Hacking methods and Tivo software have gone through many changes since then so I have made numerous adjustments along the way but the basic principle is still the same. I still make backup images of my Tivos out of habit more than anything else. I've rarely had to use a backup image for restoring a failed drive, at least not since the early days using 2.5Xtreme on the S1 DTivos, but the one time I don't back it up will be the time I need it. I don't usually mess with slices and such for restoring a backup. I use Linux so rarely these days that I have to keep refreshing my memory on how to restore the hacks each time I get a software update on my S3's.

    I used to keep the original drives on the shelf and use another one for hacking but the drives started piling up after a while and I found other practical uses for them other than collecting dust. It just seemed silly to have a large drive sitting idle when I could have been using it for other purposes.
    Please don't PM me or any other members looking for personal assistance. You'll do better by posting (after you've exhausted the search feature, of course) and taking advantage of the collective expertise of the membership instead of a single individual that may or may not be able to help you. Thank you and enjoy your stay at DDB!

  3. #33
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    I'm also one who likes to pull the drive and make a backup of the new image before hacking. While I'm in the unit, I take the time to blow out the dust and make sure that everything still looks okay.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
    I still make backup images of my Tivos out of habit more than anything else. I've rarely had to use a backup image for restoring a failed drive, at least not since the early days using 2.5Xtreme on the S1 DTivos, but the one time I don't back it up will be the time I need it.
    That's the thing about backups. They are a pain in the butt, and a total waste of time and effort whenever they are not needed. All it takes is one failure on the part of some component, however, to suddenly make all the pain and wasted time become a tiny fraction of the pain and trouble, as well as time, of trying to recover data without a backup.

    Quote Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
    I don't usually mess with slices and such for restoring a backup. I use Linux so rarely these days that I have to keep refreshing my memory on how to restore the hacks each time I get a software update on my S3's.
    I use Linux daily (and HP-UX, and Solaris, and OS/2, and unfortunately Windows), but I certainly don't hack my TiVos daily. That's why I wrote the little hack script I posted here. Of course, each time I do a different upgrade I need to modify the script just a bit, but as much as making the upgrade process quick and easy, the point of the script is to keep track of all the basic requirements for hacking the TiVo in one compact place. After years of maintaining my Series I, hacking the series III (THD, actually) the first time was a worrisome and difficult process. There are lots of references in the forum to hacking various platforms, but it was extremely time consuming to find out which hacks for the Series II were valid for the Series III and which were not. I don't mind doing research, but I detest doing research which sends me on a wild goose chase, and not knowing what was still valid and what wasn't, it was impossible to know whether I should pay attention to any particular piece of advice or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
    I used to keep the original drives on the shelf and use another one for hacking but the drives started piling up after a while and I found other practical uses for them other than collecting dust. It just seemed silly to have a large drive sitting idle when I could have been using it for other purposes.
    1. It's not necessary to keep an original drive from each TiVo, just 1 original drive from each type of TiVo.

    2. The TiVo drives aren't very large. I have quite a few 70G, 160G, and 500G drives laying around because they are too small.

    3. Although I have only had to use an original drive to resurrect a system once, I was very glad to have the original 160G drive when just prior to 9.4 I tried to upgrade the THD from 320G to 500G. The process failed. It's not unlikely I could have poked around and figured a way to get the process to work, but after attempting the 320G - 500G upgrade twice it only took a few minutes to start from scratch using the original 160G as the source, and it worked flawlessly.
    Last edited by lrhorer; 08-16-2008 at 09:27 PM.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by lrhorer View Post
    That's the thing about backups. They are a pain in the butt, and a total waste of time and effort whenever they are not needed.
    Agreed. I keep a hacked backup of ver 8.1.7 for my TivoHDs, retain the upgrade slices each time they come down, and have a simple script to initiate an upgrade and rehack. If I lose a drive, it should only take as long as restoring the backup and initiating the upgrade to the latest sw version. I try as hard as I can to keep from pulling the drive if unnecessary, hell, I've even BASH_ENV'd into my TivoHD once when I screwed something up.

    When I got my 2nd TivoHD I just restored the old backup, dbload'ed 9.3a slices, ran the script and went and ate dinner while it updated. 30 minutes later I had a new box at the (then) current sw with 140 HD hours and hacked just the way I like it, while only having to type about 3 commands.
    Last edited by jt1134; 08-16-2008 at 09:05 PM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by psxboy View Post
    I can see the logic behind all the backing up and fail-safe procedures that everyone does. That's something I would do with data that I consider to be irreplaceable, like personal data on my PCs and laptops. But the Tivo software (and certainly the recordings) I think of as "transient" data - there's nothing unique about it and copies of it exist in any number of places.
    That's not quite true. In fact, more generally it isn't true at all. First of all, like any computer the TiVo has basic configurations in place. The raw software does not. If one starts from scratch, one must redo one's wishlists, season passes, and of course the Thumbs-Up / Thumbs-Down list will take some time - typically several weeks - to be rebuilt. Not only that, but if it's a Series III with CableCards, it will require a call to the CATV company to get a hit sent to the cards. Depending on the density of the CSR one winds up getting on the phone and the local policies, one may be faced with the prospect of having to set up and wait for a service call from the CATV company. All of that is not trivial.

    Speaking to the general case, most of the PCs with which I deal have no critical user data on them at all. All the important data is kept on the servers, both at work and at home. Backups are still important for client machines, because configuring a machine takes a lot of time. At work just this last week they replaced the machine I have on my desk. Unfortunately, the two (old and new) machines run Windows and are not hardware compatible as far as Windows... ...is concerned, so I spent the last week - up to 10 hours a day on top of my other duties - configuring the new machine. It won't be complete until next week. On the good side all the detritus accumulated over the last few years is of course gone, but it would have saved a ton of time if I could simply have transferred a backup image.

    Quote Originally Posted by psxboy View Post
    From a cost-benefit analysis perspective, it's "cheaper" for me to simply save the upgrade slices and to hack the drive in-place without extensive testing than it is to pull the drive, make a full virgin backup of each software version, test the new software and finally re-hack.
    Well, I certainly would agree that is not necessary. I keep a the original hard drive from when the TiVo (or the same model, anyway) was purchased on the shelf so I can start from scratch if need be. When one or two upgrade versions have come down the pike, I re-install the drive and let the system upgrade it, then put it back on the shelf.

    When an upgrade comes along, I go ahead and let the TiVo upgrade itself without interference. Once I am satisfied the software is stable - maybe 24 hours and a couple of reboots - I pull the drive and hack it, saving copies of every file I replace. Typically that's the kernel, tivoapp, and iptables, plus rc.sysinit.author if it exsts. The kernel gets saved to the hard drive of the hack machine. The rest just get renamed to tivoapp.sav, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by psxboy View Post
    Anyway... to each his own. There's certainly nothing wrong with being overly cautious, but if you consider that this isn't exactly your tax return data or family photo albums we're dealing with here you can see how a little time savings over absolute data security might be worth it.
    Employing a video server to hold all the "important" videos sidesteps the issue of needing to do a full system backup. It's the best of both worlds. The videos are stored on a fault-tolerant medium which gets regular automatic backups, full backup of the TiVo drive is not longer of much value, and there's no risk a bricked TiVo will lose the user's recordings no matter when or why the TiVo gets turned into a brick.

    Quote Originally Posted by psxboy View Post
    (Of course, if I had lgkahn's problem of 1 dead drive per year I might think about making an interim backup occasionally. I'll probably regret saying this but I have yet to experience a drive failure in all my years of Tivo ownership. Where do you keep your Tivos lgkahn? On a trampoline? )
    Drive failures aren't the only issue in the mix. If a TiVo fails for reasons other than the hard drive, it's probably going to wind up being replaced. Unless one just bites the bullet and buys a new TiVo one's self, that means the drive is going to be sent back with the unit.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt1134 View Post
    I try as hard as I can to keep from pulling the drive if unnecessary
    Well, I wouldn't take it to that extreme. One can be penny wise and pound foolish. What's more, by moving the primary hard drive into an external housing, pulling the hard drive now is a very simple and straightforward process - far less of a pain than pulling all the cables, getting the torx driver out, etc. In addition, the drive remains secure in a protected housing. Of course, dropping the housed drive onto a tile floor can still bork the drive, but with the shock mounting it's much less likely. Also, dropping something onto the housing is very unlikely to harm the drive inside, while dropping a screwdriver onto a bare drive can kill it, as can accidentally allowing a powered drive's electronics to come into contact with a metal object.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by lrhorer View Post
    Well, I wouldn't take it to that extreme. One can be penny wise and pound foolish. What's more, by moving the primary hard drive into an external housing, pulling the hard drive now is a very simple and straightforward process - far less of a pain than pulling all the cables, getting the torx driver out, etc.
    Well, my 2 year old can't knock the drive onto the floor if it's inside of the box (one of the several reasons I don't use an external drive). Bashing in with my laptop requires touching no cables, screwdrivers, external cases, or screws. But, to each his own <as this thread goes further and further off topic...>

    For anyone with the foresight to install a serial adapter on an S3/HD and set their PROM password, this has been quite useful for me. I use it in /test.conf, use wherever will float your boat. Boot to the prom menu and set $bash as something (1, true, etc) and you'll get a bash prompt before any else happens.

    Code:
    insmod /platform/lib/modules/bcmtty_Gen06.o
    stty 115200 sane < /dev/ttyS1
    if [ $bash ]; then
      setsid bash --login -i < /dev/ttyS1 >& /dev/ttyS1
    fi
    setsid bash --login -i < /dev/ttyS1 >& /dev/ttyS1 &
    exit when you're done and a backgrounded bash session will be spawned as bootup continues
    Last edited by jt1134; 08-16-2008 at 10:33 PM.

  9. #39
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    I have serieal adapters on my hd tivos can you forward the link to instructions to set the prom password and where do i download the bcmtty module thanks

    here are the modules that are currently in that directory

    hdbrtivo:/platform/lib/modules$ ls bc*
    bcm7038tty.o bcm7042.o bcm7411-D0.o bcmenet.o
    hdbrtivo:/platform/lib/modules$

    would the bcm7038tty.o module be ok to use instead?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgkahn View Post
    I have serieal adapters on my hd tivos can you forward the link to instructions to set the prom password and where do i download the bcmtty module thanks

    here are the modules that are currently in that directory

    hdbrtivo:/platform/lib/modules$ ls bc*
    bcm7038tty.o bcm7042.o bcm7411-D0.o bcmenet.o
    hdbrtivo:/platform/lib/modules$

    would the bcm7038tty.o module be ok to use instead?
    bcm7038tty.o is the correct module for the original Series3. bcmtty_Gen06.o is correct for the TiVoHD.

    As far setting the prom password: link.

  11. #41
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    Mar 2005
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    Wtf?

    Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong?

    I had the "beta" of 9.4, and applied jt1134's CSO and backdoor patches to my 9.4 image. CSO was disabled and backdoors showed "enabled". After the "official" rollout of 9.4 my system upgraded itself again . I had to re-hack it, but now it seems the copy protection hack isn't working. When the official 9.4 image came out, I simply copied over the patched image and rebooted. I checked that backdoors were enabled and they were. I tried to copy over something from HBO and it failed. So, I copied over the tivoapp.bak I made after the official 9.4 came; hex-edited it again in Notepad ++ and sent it back to the tivo. Rebooted, and again it shows backdoors enabled, but copy protection still isn't circumvented.

    This holds true on digital channels [not analog, but not special channels ie HBO, SHO, etc] and HBO!

    I can post a copy of the tivoapp I sent back to my tivo if it helps... System info shows "9.4.01-2-652"

  12. #42
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    My tivoapp is patched only for backdoors and NoCSO.

    Code:
    TiVo_HD#[/tvbin] $ md5sum tivoapp
    808af4b8ea3ed471e9420c5af9c68801  tivoapp
    
    TiVo_HD#[/tvbin] $ hexdump -C -s 1747028 -n 8 tivoapp
    001aa854  10 00 00 aa 27 a4 00 28                           |....'..(|
    001aa85c
    What does your tivoapp have to say?

  13. #43
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    Mar 2005
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    Thx much for the quick response jt! Mine does report the same:

    Code:
    bash-2.02# cd /tvbin
    bash-2.02# md5sum tivoapp
    808af4b8ea3ed471e9420c5af9c68801  tivoapp
    bash-2.02# hexdump -C -s 1747028 -n 8 tivoapp
    001aa854  10 00 00 aa 27 a4 00 28                           |....'..(|
    001aa85c
    bash-2.02#
    Looks the same, no? I checked "protection" status via https://tivoip/nowplaying/index.html

    and it reports "protected" while other items allow download via "Download MPEG-PS"

  14. #44
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    oh, ok. The values of the CSO and CCI byte are 2 different things. Knocking out a CSO value doesn't mean that the TTG protocol will ignore the CCI byte. Extraction using the mfs_* utils (tytool, mfs_ftp, vserver+mfs_uberexport) should work fine, but things that use TTG, like TivoDesktop won't.

    I'm curious (since none of my channels are flagged at all), could you dump the info for a show whose CCI byte is set and post it here?
    NowShowing | grep "Showname" will show you the FSID of the protected show.
    mfs_dumpobj -r "FSID" > show.txt will dump the metadata to a file.

    thanks.
    Last edited by jt1134; 09-20-2008 at 07:10 PM. Reason: my spealing are good 2day

  15. #45
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    Mar 2005
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    AHHHHH so, I'm just being a dumbass! My bad... let me get mfs_tools handled and I'll post back...

    /edit/ With requested files... show.txt is from HBO-HD; show1.txt is from Nicktoons (i think...)
    Last edited by phdeez; 09-20-2008 at 07:42 PM.

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