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Thread: S3 hack for CCI after PROM mod

  1. #16
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    <Response deleted>
    Last edited by cartouchbea; 08-12-2009 at 04:42 PM. Reason: I cannot condone disabling copy protection or encryption.

  2. #17
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    Playback of .TiVo files extracted with TiVoDesktop from a fully hacked S3 works fine for me.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLandYacht View Post
    Am I correct in reading this to say that even though you can TTG from a CSO-hacked Tivo, the result is a file whose video is garbage?
    Using TTG, yes, I believe that is correct. (I'm downloading a program right now to double-check.) MRV will also not work except to another NoCSO hacked TiVo. While this sounds bad, tserver and mfs_ftp are much faster than TTG, and I find the TyTool interface to be the best one around for not only downloading program on the TiVo but also deleting them once the download is complete. It's vastly better, IMO, than TiVo Desktop, so in my estimation, the distinction is moot. TyTool's editor no longer works for Series III class TiVos, so I use Video Redo to actually edit the files after passing them (automatically) through s3tots.

    Of course a slightly different way to skin the transfer cat is to employ the CCI Byte hack without NoCSO, allowing one to MRV even to unhacked TiVos and to employ TTG no matter what.

    Edit: No, I was mistaken. As Jamie mentions above, TTG works fine on a NoCSO TiVo. Obviously, the TTG mechanism will work on a CCI Byte hacked TiVo, but won't work on one that has not been CCI Byte hacked if the show is copy protected, regardless of whether it has been NoCSO hacked or not.
    Last edited by lrhorer; 04-18-2009 at 02:01 PM.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
    Playback of .TiVo files extracted with TiVoDesktop from a fully hacked S3 works fine for me.
    You know what I think I was thinking was the early days of the S3, before MRV / TTG was enabled. Back then, of course, tserver or mfs_ftp were the only ways to go, so I had it in my mind the ordinary mechanisms were unusable. In any case, even though TTG does work, I still recommend TyTool / tserver. It's much easier and more flexible for the user, and the network transfers are faster.
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  5. #20
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    Basically, I'm trying to weigh the pro/cons of modifying my TivoHD.

    If, as has been said, alll the digital channels are copy protected, then I guess I'd have to...unless theres another way around it. I'm still fresh on this forum, haven't even gotten my first tivo up & running yet (purchased one, but it was DOA, waiting for the RMA'd unit to show up).

    Had not read enough to know about the copy protection on digital channels before purchasing it or I might not have. But as long as there's a way around it, I'll go for it.

    Responses so far appear to be fairly helpful. You don't find that on a lot of forums.

    I'll continue reading. And reading...and then I'll read & search a little more.

  6. #21
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    By FCC regulation, no locally broadcast channel may have it's protection byte set. Thus, your local channels will not be copy protected. If one is, it's a mistake, and a quick note to your local franchise authority should fix the issue, if a trouble ticket with the CATV company does not. Since most CSRs and front line techs are ignorant of FCC regulations or how the the protection byte works, the latter is often ineffective - frequently they will try to foist the issue off on the Tivo.

    Beyond that, the setting of the protection byte on digital programs is at the discretion of the CATV company, and often mandated by agreements in place between the content providers or content owners and the CATV company. In short, while some CATV companies are quite relaxed about setting the copy protection byte on their content, nothing will prevent them from doing so at some point in the future. Some companies, like Time Warner, protect every legally accessible channel.

    Other than the cost and voiding the warranty, there really isn't much of a down side to replacing the PROM. Hypothetically, Tivo could inspect it remotely, and although it doesn't appear to be the case, it is even possible they could re-program it remotely. (Most people don't think the hardware capable of this, however.) It's remotely possible they could deny service to anyone whose TiVo is modified until they re-program the PROM back to its original code, although this could potentially lead to a legal quagmire for TiVo which I think they would be most reluctant to enter. Of course, it's also possible whoever modifies the TiVo might damage it beyond repair. The latter being by far the most likely, none of these are terribly likely to happen, unless of course in the latter case the tech is inexperienced in replacing surface mount components. Nonetheless, continue at your own risk.

    Once the PROM is replaced, the user then is free to choose what hacks, if any, he wishes to implement. Note whatever hacks are in place will be destroyed by each new upgrade unless the user takes steps to prevent it. In my case, I've set up a Linux boot on one of my systems specifically dedicated to hacking the TiVo, and switched the SATA cables inside the THD so the primary drive sits in an external enclosure. With this setup, re-hacking the TiVo last night literally took less than 5 minutes. It took longer for the THD to boot after plugging the external enclosure back in than it did to hack the drive, so I don't bother to try to stop the upgrade process. I just let it happen and once the syste is stable after the upgrade, I hack it.
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  7. #22
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    First, let me show which unit I have.

    PICTURE

    I've read a bit on the forums, and in some places the terms TivoHD and HR10-250 are used in the same sentence.

    So, first question, based on the picture above (and it's direct from Tivo, who sold me this unit mere days ago), is that the right model# or is there another one that applies? I've seen nothing on either Tivo.com or weaknees to indicate one way or the other?

    Also, based on some information in this thread LINK, it may be possible to hack the Tivo without resocketing the PROM. Is this possible/adviseable on the unit referenced above?

    Thanks again.

  8. #23
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    The link is discussing the HR10-250, which is a DirecTiVo. It talks about the "HD TiVo", not the TiVoHD. Note the discussion is from 2004. The TiVoHD didn't come out until 2007. The bottom line is without replacing the PROM, the chain of trust can't be broken, and the TiVoHD can't be hacked. Anything you try will result in either a locked TiVo, or your hacks being erased at the first boot.

    I don't know what the HR10-250 looks like, and I can't quite read all the text on the picture you supplied. but that looks to me like a TivoHD. If it has a CATV input, an OTA input (both in the back), and a pair of CableCard slots (in the front), then it's a TiVoHD.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by lrhorer View Post
    The link is discussing the HR10-250, which is a DirecTiVo. It talks about the "HD TiVo", not the TiVoHD. Note the discussion is from 2004. The TiVoHD didn't come out until 2007. The bottom line is without replacing the PROM, the chain of trust can't be broken, and the TiVoHD can't be hacked. Anything you try will result in either a locked TiVo, or your hacks being erased at the first boot.

    I don't know what the HR10-250 looks like, and I can't quite read all the text on the picture you supplied. but that looks to me like a TivoHD. If it has a CATV input, an OTA input (both in the back), and a pair of CableCard slots (in the front), then it's a TiVoHD.
    Thanks for clarifying. Looks like what I have is a TivoHD. Copy from Tivo sez...
    Factory-renewed TiVo® HD DVR*

    So, next step i guess is to get a PROM...after lots readin.

    just 4 clarification, is mine a series2 or 3? your above is correct. 2 f-connectors on back, 2 cc slots in frt.

  10. #25
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    Series III class. Only Series III class TiVos support CableCards, the original being the S3 (or Series 3), released in November 2006.
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  11. #26
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    Next question, since we already have a semi-conversation goin in this thread.

    I may be kinda hijacking this thread a bit, but a quick question. Short of hacking the unit...does "direct extraction" work with this unit?

    Theoretically, what I'd do is, get two identical drives. Both ready-to-go as far as the Tivo unit is concerned. One would be in the unit, the other boxed & stored. When something came up that I wanted off the tivo, but was copy-protected, I'd open the Tivo, take out THAT drive, pop in the boxed drive & get the show off of it.

    The point of doing it this way is...the Tivo would be down for mere minutes (just long enough to swap drives), and I'd be in no rush to get the recording off the drive.

    So my question for you is, does that sound like a workable solution for the TivoHD or am I wasting my time looking at the above thread?

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLandYacht View Post
    So my question for you is, does that sound like a workable solution for the TivoHD or am I wasting my time looking at the above thread?
    wasting your time.

    since there's already built-in ethernet on the tivohd, there isn't really any reason to do pc extraction unless the drive was defective and would not boot all the way in the tivo. the same methods to circumvent encryption would still be necessary. the tools used for direct extraction in a pc are the exact same tools we use on the tivo for extraction. pc extraction was really only feasible in the days when tivos did not have built-in networking hardware.

  13. #28
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    It would work, but as jt1134 responded, it's just a waste of time. That thread was for a TiVo which in effect could not be networked. An S3 has a built-in Ethernet port with built-in networking capabilities. It's going to be much easier to implement either the NoCSO patch or the protection byte patches and then extract over the network. For that matter, if the show in question is not protected, then extraction over the network is straightforward without any sort of hack. In this case, 3rd party extraction is not required, but may be preferred due to greater speed and uniformity of access for the user. In other words, I don't even bother to check the protection status; I just extract with TyTool regardless of whether the show was protected, or not. You can view the link in my tagline for some screenshots of TyTool.

    To put it succinctly, especially if you have only one TiVo, I would recommend implementing the NoCSO hack and installing tserver on the TiVo, then install TyTool on your PC(s), and extract to .ty using TyTool. Once extracted, use either s3tots or tytompg to convert the file and Video Redo to edit it. If you want to send it back to the TiVo, I recommend pyTivo or Galleon.

    If you wind up with multiple TiVos and want to be able to MRV between them, then I would engage the protection byte hack as well as NoCSO. Employing only the CCI byte hack is also a possibility, and allows one to use only the "standard" applications such as Galleon, pyTivo, HTTPS, MRV or (if you must) TiVo Desktop Plus to handle extraction, but to my eye, if one is going to the trouble of hacking the Tivo in the first place, doing the NoCSO hack is no significant extra work, and the benefits are considerable.
    Last edited by lrhorer; 04-19-2009 at 05:47 PM.
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  14. #29
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    My problem is, though, that although I have the background (electronics) to theoretically accomplish the PROM thing, with research, there are a couple of hurdles I couldn't overcome.

    First is that I haven't touched a soldering iron in a decade & a half. Second that I've got a neurological condition that causes me to shake all the time. No way in hell I'd be able to do it without screwin it up no matter how I tried.

    I'll have to see if I have the gonads to trust cartouchbea with my precious TivoHD (since it appears I missed the final PROM date for Omikron). That is, of course, after I run it a week or two to make sure it isn't DOA like the first one.

    Then comes the fun part, learnin everything about hacking the software & then goin for it. Question: assuming I back up my original HDD (I've seen quite a few mentions of this), there's nothing I can do software-wise that can't be fixed by restoring the original image? Also, are there any tools/special components I'll need to accomplish this other than a computer I can run the necessary software on for hacking & a few screwdrivers/etc?

    And no, I have no plans to have multiple tivos.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLandYacht View Post
    First is that I haven't touched a soldering iron in a decade & a half.
    Oh, I've had an iron in my hand every couple of months or so, but I've never worked much with surface mount stuff. My eyes aren't what they were a couple of decades ago, either, and I no longer have a serviceable work bench. The kitchen table isn't really the right place to do close-up soldering.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLandYacht View Post
    Second that I've got a neurological condition that causes me to shake all the time. No way in hell I'd be able to do it without screwin it up no matter how I tried.
    I can relate. A spinal injury a few years ago left me partially paralyzed. I no longer have either the fine nor gross motor control I once did.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLandYacht View Post
    I'll have to see if I have the gonads to trust cartouchbea with my precious TivoHD
    Well, there's always that. You might post a query on his thread concerning what warranty, if any, he is willing to extend his customers. I would think if he manages to wreck your TiVo himself he would make reasonable restitution, but I cannot speak for him. I certainly know of nothing bad concerning his service. As always, YMMV, and proceed at your own risk. I imagine a very few people in this hobby have managed to permanently turn their TiVos into a brick. I myself have had a couple of upgrades go south to the extent of losing recordings, (one dropped hard drive and one incompatible PC that trashed the drive without my knowing it), but nothing totally unrecoverable.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLandYacht View Post
    (since it appears I missed the final PROM date for Omikron).
    Did you get that directly from him? I haven't seen any public announcement of it. I know he is winding down his involvement with mods, but I have heard nothing to the effect he has already shut down. I've got one more S3 I want someone to modify at some point. If Omikron isn't available at the time, perhaps Cartouchbea will be my choice. There have been others from time to time.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLandYacht View Post
    Then comes the fun part, learnin everything about hacking the software & then goin for it.
    It's really not that difficult. I suggest you look at this thread, and after reading it in its entirely, you might go back and scrutinize this post of mine. It is not full featured, and it is written for a Linux desktop system - which you may not have, but it is designed to exemplify the basic procedures necessary to hack an S3 kernel, add in features like tserver, ftp, or TiVoWebPlus, and do a basic hack of the tivoapp software. By looking at this, you should be able to see what is necessary, even if you take a different approach to hacking the TiVo. I use a more in-depth, somewhat more automatic version of the script, myself. I also employ a bit less of a plain vanilla, primer-like approach in the script I use, but my intent was to give a clear example of hacking the TiVo, not clever scripting.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLandYacht View Post
    Question: assuming I back up my original HDD (I've seen quite a few mentions of this), there's nothing I can do software-wise that can't be fixed by restoring the original image?
    Well, I can't absolutely guarantee anything, but yes, a valid backup of the hard drive should prevent you from turning the TiVo into a doorstop. Even if you do manage to royally mangle the software, InstantCake or a pre-configured hard drive from DVRupgrade or Weaknees should be able to get you back on the air.

    What I personally recommend in general is to take your TiVo after it arrives and immediately upgrade the hard drive to at least a 500G - available online for under $60. WinMFS does a really good job, and is quite easy. MFS_Live is a bit more difficult to use, but also much more flexible. Either way, I would copy the stock drive to the 3rd party drive and expand the storage using one of those tools. Take the original drive, and store it in a safe place, hacking only the upgrade drive. That's both the safest and quickest solution, not to mention one with the best side-benefits.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLandYacht View Post
    Also, are there any tools/special components I'll need to accomplish this other than a computer I can run the necessary software on for hacking & a few screwdrivers/etc?
    The TiVo employs a small Torx screw for its case and drive mountings. You'll need a PC with at least one SATA port and a drive with plenty of space or else two SATA ports. If you intend to use MFS_Live, it also needs a CD burner. You'll need a network connection to download MFS_Live or WinMFS. You could also purchase and download InstantCake.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLandYacht View Post
    And no, I have no plans to have multiple tivos.
    Well, neither did I. Now I have three. The point is, unless you have more than 1 TiVo, the CCI byte hack doesn't afford you much, and the NoCSO hack doesn't really have a down side. If you do wind up with multiple TiVos, and you wind up wanting to do MRV, then you will either need to NoCSO hack them all, or none of them, the latter leaving only the CCI byte hack being compatible with MRV on a mix of hacked and non-hacked TiVos.
    Last edited by lrhorer; 04-20-2009 at 02:04 AM.
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