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Thread: Moving disk to another unit.

  1. #1
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    Moving disk to another unit.

    Recently I had a main board go dead on my TiVo. I confirmed that it wasn't the power supply or the drives by powering them independently (when I plugged in the main board, the power supply shit down). I have another TiVo box and desire to move the drives to that box, with all the shows that 800Gbytes stores. I have no problem with moving the access card to the new receiver, but my main concern is to not delete the existing programming on the unit. If necessary I can get a third drive (they have 1.5 TB drives locally) that I can transfer the data to if necessary. These drives originally were setup with instacake, and I started with a 120GB drive expanding to the two 400GB drives I have now (lots of space!). Any suggestions?

    My wife is having withdrawal symptoms so a quick resolution would be nice.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    What model TiVo do you have? If it has an access card, presumably it is a DirecTiVo. Is the second unit the same model? If different, what is the model?

    The power supplies in DirecTiVos were notorious for popping caps, which COULD product the symptoms you described. Have you checked the caps?

    The serial number of DirecTiVos is stored in the crypto chip. The only way to accomplish what you want to do is move the crypto chip from the 'dead' DVR to the 'live' one. This is a surface mount chip; do you have the soldering skills necessary? If not, is the 'dead' unit hacked and encryption disabled?

    PlainBill
    There's a difference between needing help, and just being plain ole' lazy.

    "You cannot teach a man anything. You can only help him find it for himself." Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

    HR20-700 with 2 TB, HR22-100, HR22-100, HR22-100, HR23-100 all running 0x5cd and networked.

  3. #3
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    Yes, it is a Series 2 direct TV TiVo

    Both the "donor" and the "recipient" are of the same model (Phillips). As I remember when I made up the drives, and got the TiVoweb plus working, I turned off the encryption on the drives (a patch as I remember). I believe that the crypto chip (the one with a white label I assume) could be transfered, but it takes a bit of work to do so. I do know that I can call DirecTV and tell them to transfer the access card, and they ought to do this (the new receiver has thankfully a receiver ID, which is needed when you call them on the phone and want to turn on a receiver.

    As for diagnosing the "donor" receiver, and finding out what shorted out the power supply, I don't know where to start. Any ideas?

    Thanks.

  4. #4
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    Based on your answers, I think you are going to have to buy a lot of flowers to keep your wife happy.

    Philips is the brand; not the model. Philips sold at least two models of Series 2 Standard Definition DirecTiVos; you cannot transfer the crypto chip between non-RID and RID models.

    IF you in fact hacked the receiver and disabled encryption, the solution is easy. Transfer the drives from the 'dead' system to the 'live' system, run '51 killer' (part of AlphaWolf's Series 2 Binaries), then call DirecTV, and have them activate the new system. If you did not disable encryption, you are dealing with an unhappy wife unless you are capable of removing and reinstalling 44 pin surface mount ICs.

    As far as repairing the 'donor' receiver, I wouldn't even try it. If you haven't tried transferring the power supplies, do so. If in fact the motherboard is shorted, it's not worth the trouble to attempt to repair it.

    PlainBill
    There's a difference between needing help, and just being plain ole' lazy.

    "You cannot teach a man anything. You can only help him find it for himself." Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

    HR20-700 with 2 TB, HR22-100, HR22-100, HR22-100, HR23-100 all running 0x5cd and networked.

  5. #5
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    OK, I'm willing to try anything, so I thought I'd first try moving the drives over. If I do this and the drives AREN'T encrypted will they "come up" OK? If I do have the encryption on (yuck!) will I do any harm? I really don't want to get out the soldering iron and make a mess if I don't have to, but I don't want to mess up the works beforehand.

    Do you have a pointer to (URL?) "51 killer"? Can you point me to what it does? It has been a while since I setup this thing, so I want to go slowly.

    Is there a way to transfer the two drives (all 800 Gb) to a larger single drive? Will this help any?

    I'd also like to update the TiVo app, as I have noticed a few differences in the "temporary" TiVo (not the "donor" or "recipient"). For instance it knows the "new" daylight savings time rules.

    Thanks.

    I'm assuming the crypto chip is the one with a label on it, far left about half way between the back panel and the access card slot.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by herby1620 View Post
    OK, I'm willing to try anything, so I thought I'd first try moving the drives over. If I do this and the drives AREN'T encrypted will they "come up" OK? If I do have the encryption on (yuck!) will I do any harm? I really don't want to get out the soldering iron and make a mess if I don't have to, but I don't want to mess up the works beforehand.
    If you transfer the drives to another DirecTiVo you will get Error 51. As I recall you can't do much of anything at that point except choose 'Clear and Delete Everything' from the menu.

    Quote Originally Posted by herby1620 View Post
    Do you have a pointer to (URL?) "51 killer"? Can you point me to what it does? It has been a while since I setup this thing, so I want to go slowly.
    Try this. As I stated above when you transfer a drive from one DirecTiVo to another the OS examines a signature on the drive and validates it against the Crypto chip. If validation fails, you get 'Error 51'. AlphaWolf's great tool removes the signature from the drive, and the OS generates a new signature. The joker is the original signature was used to encrypt recordings; with the new signature any existing encrypted recordings cannot be viewed on any DirecTiVo

    Quote Originally Posted by herby1620 View Post
    Is there a way to transfer the two drives (all 800 Gb) to a larger single drive? Will this help any?
    I believe you can do this with MFS-FTP; as far as I know, it wouldn't help. Check the capabilities of MFSLive.

    Quote Originally Posted by herby1620 View Post
    I'd also like to update the TiVo app, as I have noticed a few differences in the "temporary" TiVo (not the "donor" or "recipient"). For instance it knows the "new" daylight savings time rules.
    This thread has a process for upgrading a previously hacked DirecTiVo via slices and rehacking without pulling the drive.

    Quote Originally Posted by herby1620 View Post
    Thanks.

    I'm assuming the crypto chip is the one with a label on it, far left about half way between the back panel and the access card slot.
    No, that chip is the prom (firmware). The crypto chip is an Atmel chip next to the ribbon cable connection.

    Bottom line: If the recordings are not encrypted you can move the drives to another DirecTiVo, run 51killer, and watch all existing and future recordings seamlessly. If the recordings ARE encrypted, your only option is to transfer the drives AND crypto chip to another DirecTiVo of the same 'vintage' (If the donor is a RID, the recipient must be a RID. If the donor is a non-RID, the recipient must be a non-RID.) At that point, for all practical purposes the recipient is the donor. Screw up and you wife has a permanent headache.

    PlainBill
    Last edited by PlainBill; 11-10-2011 at 09:23 PM.
    There's a difference between needing help, and just being plain ole' lazy.

    "You cannot teach a man anything. You can only help him find it for himself." Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

    HR20-700 with 2 TB, HR22-100, HR22-100, HR22-100, HR23-100 all running 0x5cd and networked.

  7. #7
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    Enthusiasm is applaudable, unless it far outruns experience and knowledge, and then it's likely to cause irreversible damage, like loss of recordings, and I fear that's where you may be heading.

    Let's start with you looking on the back of each unit and posting the actual model numbers, so we all know exactly which TiVos we're talking about, and then we'll take it from there.
    Too busy TiVo wrangling to watch television anymore.

  8. #8
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    OK, here are the "numbers" on the boxes:
    Donor (non functional main board): Phillips DSR7000/17. Sticker on main board says:TS/N MXS-TP-3490709. U34 Rev 1.0 (sticker).
    Recipient: Phillips DSR708. Sticker: TT80 MXS-TT-54T0216. U34 2.5.
    I have two 400Gb drives (still spinning!) from the Donor. I believe that I turned OFF encryption when I built it back in 2007(?) but I don't have any way to confirm this. The main boards 'look' identical (looks can be deceiving!). Big question: what would happen if I just move the drives over? Would they be killed? If I did have encryption on, what error message would I get? Would the data be killed if I tried?

    Can I move the data from the two 400Gb drives to another drive (I can get 1.5 Tb drives locally with a PATA->SATA adapter).

    Thanks.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by herby1620 View Post
    OK, here are the "numbers" on the boxes:
    Donor (non functional main board): Phillips DSR7000/17. Sticker on main board says:TS/N MXS-TP-3490709. U34 Rev 1.0 (sticker).
    Recipient: Phillips DSR708. Sticker: TT80 MXS-TT-54T0216. U34 2.5.
    I have two 400Gb drives (still spinning!) from the Donor. I believe that I turned OFF encryption when I built it back in 2007(?) but I don't have any way to confirm this. The main boards 'look' identical (looks can be deceiving!). Big question: what would happen if I just move the drives over? Would they be killed? If I did have encryption on, what error message would I get? Would the data be killed if I tried?

    Can I move the data from the two 400Gb drives to another drive (I can get 1.5 Tb drives locally with a PATA->SATA adapter).

    Thanks.
    Forget transferring the crypto chip - the main boards are different. You are reduced to three options. Fortunately the first is reversible; the second is not; I don't believe you have the skill set to accomplish the third.

    Option 1. Remove the power supply from the 'Recipient' system and install it in the 'donor'. Hook up power and see if the DirecTiVo comes up. If it does, you are ready to go. If it does not, return the supplies to their original systems.

    Option 2. Install the two drives in the Recipient system. Turn it on. At some point you will get an 'Error 51'. Use either a serial cable or telnet, use that to run 51killer. Restart the DirecTiVo, if encryption is disabled you will now be able to view the recordings.

    Option 3. Buy a non-RID Series 2 DirecTiVo (DSR7000, HDVR2). Transfer the Crypto chip. At that point the purchased system becomes the old system. Insert the drives and you are good to go.

    If I haven't made this clear, the power supplies in the DirecTiVos are crap, loaded with crap capacitors. They have a long history of failing. It is not impossible the main board in your old DirecTiVo died; it is much more likely the power supply died.

    PlainBill
    There's a difference between needing help, and just being plain ole' lazy.

    "You cannot teach a man anything. You can only help him find it for himself." Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

    HR20-700 with 2 TB, HR22-100, HR22-100, HR22-100, HR23-100 all running 0x5cd and networked.

  10. #10
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    What he said, with double emphasis on the "it's probably capacitor disease" part.
    Too busy TiVo wrangling to watch television anymore.

  11. #11
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    When I started with this problem, I too thought it was a problem in the power supply (the drives weren't running). So, I swapped out the power supply. Alas there was no fun in mudville, as the "new" power supply didn't get the drives turning. I just attempted to remove the power ribbon cable, and lo and behold, the drives started spinning. So, I feel that the problem is something shorted on the main board (probably a cap somewhere). I have yet to move the drives to the "recipient" machine, as I don't want to do something that I can't reverse. My thought is to copy the two 400Gb drives to a single drive (over 1Tb drive I hope) which will do two things. First it will give my wife more hours on the TiVo, and second, I can move the drive to the new machine without the fear that I will destroy anything.
    It has been a while, but I do have: PTV Upgrade disk, Instacake, and the LBA boot CD which ought to help somewhat in moving the data around. Time will tell if I can get this done. Thanks for the information so far.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by herby1620 View Post
    When I started with this problem, I too thought it was a problem in the power supply (the drives weren't running). So, I swapped out the power supply. Alas there was no fun in mudville, as the "new" power supply didn't get the drives turning. I just attempted to remove the power ribbon cable, and lo and behold, the drives started spinning. So, I feel that the problem is something shorted on the main board (probably a cap somewhere). I have yet to move the drives to the "recipient" machine, as I don't want to do something that I can't reverse. My thought is to copy the two 400Gb drives to a single drive (over 1Tb drive I hope) which will do two things. First it will give my wife more hours on the TiVo, and second, I can move the drive to the new machine without the fear that I will destroy anything.
    It has been a while, but I do have: PTV Upgrade disk, Instacake, and the LBA boot CD which ought to help somewhat in moving the data around. Time will tell if I can get this done. Thanks for the information so far.
    I'm getting this from my brother and from you. I give information or ask a question, it is ignored.

    As far as I know, MFS Tools cannot copy two drives to a single drive. Unfortunately, MFS Live does NOT have that capability. WINmfs MIGHT have that capability.

    PlainBill
    There's a difference between needing help, and just being plain ole' lazy.

    "You cannot teach a man anything. You can only help him find it for himself." Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

    HR20-700 with 2 TB, HR22-100, HR22-100, HR22-100, HR23-100 all running 0x5cd and networked.

  13. #13
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    Let us assume for the sake of discussion that you have a power supply that is marginal, unable to provide sufficient current to power both the motherboard and the drives. Let's assume the other one is the same way.

    If you disconnect the motherboard (something I'm not sure I'd recommend doing while the power supply is plugged into a 120V AC source, i.e., 'on'), then, even if there's nothing wrong with the motherboard, perhaps that removes enough of a load that now the power supply can provide enough current for just the hard drives.

    So it could be a power supply that's 100% and a motherboard with a problem that draws too much current, or it could be a motherboard that's perfectly fine with a power supply that has problems.

    I suggest you disconnect the drives in both TiVos, then power up said TiVos and see if the motherboards come to life, even if they don't get past the welcome screen.

    If one does and one doesn't, and the power supplies can be exchanged between the 2, temporarily do so, and see if the problem follows the supply, or stays with the motherboard.

    And I recommend having the more up to date MFS Live cd, v1.4, on hand, even if you don't have a TiVo.
    Too busy TiVo wrangling to watch television anymore.

  14. #14
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    I'll try various combinations of power supplies and drives to see what happens, maybe something will go forward.

    As for copying two drives to a larger single one, I looked at MFS tools and it seems that I can do:
    backup -qTao - /dev/hda /dev/hdc | restore -s 127 -r 4 -xzi - /dev/hdd
    and go from two drives (hda/hdb) to a larger thrid one (hdd). Has anyone had success with this. I have no problems with downloading the latest version of the mfstools bootable CD and going from there. I don't know the options for 'backup' and 'restore' ("-qTao" and "-s 127 -r 4 -xzi" respectively).

    Onward.... I'll probably price a large (1.5TB) disk soon. If the above command works, I can play to my hearts content. It will just take a little bit of time to do the copy (hours!). Such is life.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by herby1620 View Post
    I'll try various combinations of power supplies and drives to see what happens, maybe something will go forward.

    As for copying two drives to a larger single one, I looked at MFS tools and it seems that I can do:
    backup -qTao - /dev/hda /dev/hdc | restore -s 127 -r 4 -xzi - /dev/hdd
    and go from two drives (hda/hdb) to a larger thrid one (hdd). Has anyone had success with this. I have no problems with downloading the latest version of the mfstools bootable CD and going from there. I don't know the options for 'backup' and 'restore' ("-qTao" and "-s 127 -r 4 -xzi" respectively).

    Onward.... I'll probably price a large (1.5TB) disk soon. If the above command works, I can play to my hearts content. It will just take a little bit of time to do the copy (hours!). Such is life.
    Up through the original S3, a TiVo can have a total of 16 partitions on the first drive. The MFS partitions, where the recorded stuff is, start at partition 10 and are added in pairs. If you have a total from both drives of more than 6 MFS partitions, you aren't going to be able to shoehorn them onto a single drive, regardless of drive or partition size.

    Regarding drive prices, they're probably going to stay pretty painful until late spring due to the Thailand flooding.

    You might want to grab a couple of the 1TB Seagates on sale this week at Best Buy for $55 each.

    CompUSA has a 1TB Seagate, which may not be the same model, for $60, and a 1.5TB for $70, but I'm pretty sure your model TiVos are limited to 1TB per drive.

    Of course to use SATA drives you'll need to go read this thread

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=416883

    to learn about which adapters work for which TiVos, and which to avoid.

    Why don't you run

    pdisk -l

    after booting with the MFS Live cd v1.4, and post your partition maps here, or you might be able to use mfsinfo from WinMFS and be able to copy and paste it.
    Too busy TiVo wrangling to watch television anymore.

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