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Thread: Moving disk to another unit.

  1. #16
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    May 2007
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    similar, but different problem

    I have a HDVR2 that has been in place for a couple of years. I come home a few weeks ago and to box is totally dead (no LEDs, fan not spinning, etc.). So, I assume power supply and order a replacement off eBay.

    Supply comes in and does not solve the problem. I pull both supplies and plug them in stand alone. I do not know what voltages should be present on the ribbon cable, but the molex connector reads correct voltages (+5 and +12) on both of the supplies. When I plug either of the supplies into the system board, the molex voltage outputs read just a few millivolts. Definately looks like something is wrong on the system board at this point.

    I bend all the little metal retention tabs and examine both top and bottom of the board under magnification. Cannot see anything that looks wrong.

    At this point, I do not want to invest the time in troubleshooting and just order a complete new HDVR2 off eBay for $27.

    I get the unit in and it seem to power on normally. I install the drive and card from the failed unit and it seems to come up ok. I can telnet and get to mfs_ftp, but of course the normal user interface is complaining about having the wrong card inserted. I know I need to call DirecTV and get them to marry the new unit and old card and am just hoping they will not make we order a new card.

    here is where it gets's good....they totally refuse to do anything, including sending me a new card for the replacement receiver. Their answer is basically tough luck. Get newer equipment.

    So, I'm left with two options:

    1. Somehow, transfer whatever physical device that contains the serial number from my old unit to the replacement unit so that the new one in effect become the old one.

    2. Give up on this whole damned thing, switch to Comcast, and start hacking a TiVO HD (have got 2 units form eBay and a PROM from Omicron sitting beside me now) to get HD extraction capability.

    Path #2 looks like a pretty long path right now. I will have to learn how to do everything I've done on the HDVR2 on the TiVO HD which will take a lot of research, time, trial, and error. Not to mention changing service providers, fighting with them to get CableCards, etc.

    So, path #1 is looking pretty good either as a stopgap on the road to #2 or the primary plan. But, I need to know which chip(s) to move.

    I did find a a few threads about 37's and 39's and know they are talking about the flash parts that likely contain BIOS and a few other things. But, I could not find anything that definitively said what all was in the part.

    Earlier in this thread, an Atmel part is discussed as the security part that has the crypto keys, but it is unclear if anything about the serial number and binding to the service card is contained there.

    I do not need this to be done in SW. I have the equipment and skills to swap parts between these two HDVR2s (systems board appear to be identical).

    I just need some coaching on which part(s) I need to swap to basically make the replacement into the idenity of the dead unit.

    BTW, if someone wants to convince me the Comcast/TiVO HD path is easier that I'm assuming, please argue away. : )

  2. #17
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    Jan 2002
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    5,601
    The HDVR2 is a non-RID system; the system I have near me is a RID system, and I know the main boards are different. On the RID system the Atmel Crypto chip is close to the IDE cable running to the hard drive, part number AT90SC6464C. As far as I know, all you have to do is swap crypto chips. It contains the serial number of the unit. The same number (or something derived from it) is saved to the hard drive, but that won't be an issue since the drive is moving too.

    PlainBill
    There's a difference between needing help, and just being plain ole' lazy.

    "You cannot teach a man anything. You can only help him find it for himself." Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

    HR20-700 with 2 TB, HR22-100, HR22-100, HR22-100, HR23-100 all running 0x5cd and networked.

  3. #18
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    Jul 2007
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    Even if you got DirecTV to marry the old card to the new motherboard, I'm pretty sure you'd lose everything on the old drive, that's how it is with standalones.

    Have you done any soldering and unsoldering of surface mount devices before? Do you already have a magnifying lamp and some quikchip on hand?

    I did a chip swap on a standalone Series 2, and even though I got my first soldering iron about a half century ago, it's a good thing I had a dead S3 board to practice on first, and even then I only succeeded by the greatest of good fortune.

    (Okay, technically the greatest of good fortune would have been not to have needed to move the chip in the first place)

    What you're referring to as the serial number is probably the TiVo Service Number. The Series 1 standalones had both a TSN and a serial number.

    Anyway the thing that'll make the new board think it's the old board is the TSN and it's stored on what's probably the only Atmel chip on the board, unless for some reason there's a separate one where DirecTV stores its own secret magic number.
    Too busy TiVo wrangling to watch television anymore.

  4. #19
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    May 2007
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    i finally got a few minutes away from the family and looked over the board. Indeed, there is an Atmel AT90SC6464C part near the power ribbon connector and IDE connector. A bit of research through datasheets shows this is indeed what I am looking for and a bit more through dealdatabase shows that unitron has done this before (the hard way : )

    http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/sh...SC6464C-pinout

    now i know what you meant by the "greatest of good fortune" comment.

    it is a large pitch 44 pin QFP which I should be able to handle. I have a temp controlled digital soldering station (don't ask), headband with magnification and light, solder wick, etc.

    I had never heard of chipquik until you mentioned it above and looked it up as well. That is some seriously handy stuff. I assume you can just clean it off the chip you removed and want to reuse with solder wick, right? I will likely hold off on pulling the Atmel part until I can get some as there is no way anything is open today on thanksgiving and it seems like a much lower risk exercise with it than without.

    thanks to both of you for your time and assistance. I'll let you know if I end up with a happy ending or a sad one......

  5. #20
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    Jul 2007
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    Large pitch?

    The chip I moved was maybe one inch from side to side.


    Bought my chipqwik from SRA Soldering Products on Amazon.

    They no longer seem to be offering the exact package I got, but this is the same thing plus a syringe for the flux instead of just a squeeze tube for not much more.

    http://www.amazon.com/ChipQuik-Remov...1&sr=8-1-spell

    They've also got decent solder wick, better than the stuff Radio Shack used to sell back when they sold much better stuff than they do now.

    Amazon's got some other sellers offering chipqwik, but they want more money.

    For the actual soldering part, you'll want to find some really small gauge solder (strictly the traditional tin-lead alloy, no silver, makes it much trickier to work with), and use a very small tip, so as not to bridge.

    For the unsoldering a bigger tip is okay.

    Wick is probably better than a vacuum-type solder sucker, less violent pull on the chip, although that rubber squeeze bulb thing at Radio Shack may prove useful since you can adjust the suction on it by how much you squeeze the bulb.

    You really, really need to practice on something expendable first 'til you get a feel for that bismuth alloy stuff in the chipqwik set. As soon as you hit the melt point it moves around like mercury.

    If you've got any of those foam swabs left over from VCR video head and tape path cleaning, you can use those and denatured alcohol (or reel to reel tape head cleaner, probably) to clean up the flux after you get the solder removed, and again after soldering down the new chip.

    Did I mention that you need to practice on something expendable first?
    Too busy TiVo wrangling to watch television anymore.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    10
    Success!

    I ordered some ChipQuik, but ended up having to do some unexpected business travel right as it arrived. Once I got back, I picked out a couple of DIP packages on the dead board that have the same pin pitch as the Atmel QFP and practiced taking them off the board and putting them back on a few times.

    For me the biggest problem was using too much ChipQuik in removal and then trying to clean it off the removed part so it could be reused. Once i figure out both how to use less and to clean it off the part effecively, it was a piece of cake.

    I finally found time this afternoon to take a stab at the real rework and it came off without a hitch. No magic smoke released from the board and the unit booted right up without a hiccup.

    I had to hit the self service receiver re-authorization page to get it to pick up my package, but that was it. Old recordings play fine and it is merrily downloading guide data and rebuilding the todo list from my season tickets as I type.

    I still plan to rework a TiVO HD and consider the switch to Comcast. But, having this old HDVR2 working gets the family off my back and takes the time pressure off that project.

    Thanks again to unitron and PlainBill for their help with this.

  7. #22
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    Jul 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghuff View Post
    Success!

    I ordered some ChipQuik, but ended up having to do some unexpected business travel right as it arrived. Once I got back, I picked out a couple of DIP packages on the dead board that have the same pin pitch as the Atmel QFP and practiced taking them off the board and putting them back on a few times.

    For me the biggest problem was using too much ChipQuik in removal and then trying to clean it off the removed part so it could be reused. Once i figure out both how to use less and to clean it off the part effecively, it was a piece of cake.

    I finally found time this afternoon to take a stab at the real rework and it came off without a hitch. No magic smoke released from the board and the unit booted right up without a hiccup.

    I had to hit the self service receiver re-authorization page to get it to pick up my package, but that was it. Old recordings play fine and it is merrily downloading guide data and rebuilding the todo list from my season tickets as I type.

    I still plan to rework a TiVO HD and consider the switch to Comcast. But, having this old HDVR2 working gets the family off my back and takes the time pressure off that project.

    Thanks again to unitron and PlainBill for their help with this.
    Great to hear.

    Congratulations.

    Now the bad news. Separate crypto chips that can be moved from one unit to another ended with the original S3. After that (the HD and HD XL, and all the verisons of the Premiere) it's built into the main chip or something. omikron (the prom day guy) discusses it on another thread around here somewhere.

    What specifically seems to be wrong with that HD (and have you carefully examined the capacitors in its power supply)?
    Too busy TiVo wrangling to watch television anymore.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    10
    Sorry to imply there was a problem with the HD in an earlier post. The only issue is my ignorance. : )

    I know that I have to replace PROM to break root of trust first (have that in hand and is my next soldering project). After that, I assume I will have to perform the same basic changes that i did on my HDVR2. I also did enough research to know that most recorded content is 720p and to confirm that noCSO was still possible (for me, not worth the effort without extractable un-encrypted HD content). That is about as far as I have gotten.

    I have not done anything on the details (finding latest kernal revision, killhdinitrd that works for it, tool to convert extracted format to MPEG, etc.). i do not even know if the system is MIPS architecture and where to get UNIX utils, etc. that will work on it. I am so far assuming that the only thing I have in hand that will carry over is the .tcl interpreted code stuff like TivoWebPlus and MFS_FTP. (unless I am even misunderstanding that).

    I know all the info is out there. I just have not been able to invest the time to dig it out yet. But, having the HDVR2 working will buy me the time to do my research.

  9. #24
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    Jul 2007
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    Go look for Omikron's posts about "prom day" to see if the S3 HD can be prom modded, or if things ended at the original S3.
    Too busy TiVo wrangling to watch television anymore.

  10. #25
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    May 2007
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    456
    Yes, a tivoHD can be prom modded and you may want to have him change your caps while he has it. It's worth the extra loot...

  11. #26
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    Dec 2004
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    831
    Quote Originally Posted by ghuff View Post
    I know that I have to replace PROM to break root of trust first (have that in hand and is my next soldering project).
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by ghuff View Post
    After that, I assume I will have to perform the same basic changes that i did on my HDVR2.
    Not so much, no. Similar in many respects, but not the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by ghuff View Post
    I also did enough research to know that most recorded content is 720p
    Not really, no. Most is 1080i.

    Quote Originally Posted by ghuff View Post
    and to confirm that noCSO was still possible (for me, not worth the effort without extractable un-encrypted HD content). That is about as far as I have gotten.
    Yes, noCSO is still about the same, but there is also CCI and noMEK. Whether the latter are a better choice for you or not is something you will need to decide for yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by ghuff View Post
    I have not done anything on the details (finding latest kernal revision, killhdinitrd that works for it
    Killhdinitrd has been replaced by replace_initrd. See the link in my signature.

    Quote Originally Posted by ghuff View Post
    tool to convert extracted format to MPEG, etc.).
    If you want to use tserver or mfs_ftp, I think s3tots is your only option, and that converts to .ts, not to .mpg. I used to do that, using VideoRedo to convert to .mpg and edit the files, but it was too troublesome and error prone. Now I just use CCI along with kmttg and tivodecode to convert to .mpg and then VideoRedo to edit can recode to h.264.

    Quote Originally Posted by ghuff View Post
    i do not even know if the system is MIPS architecture
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by ghuff View Post
    and where to get UNIX utils, etc. that will work on it.
    See the link in my signature.

    Quote Originally Posted by ghuff View Post
    I am so far assuming that the only thing I have in hand that will carry over is the .tcl interpreted code stuff like TivoWebPlus
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by ghuff View Post
    and MFS_FTP. (unless I am even misunderstanding that).
    No. On the THD, you need the 64 bit versions.
    Having trouble with TyTool? Try TyTool Documentation
    Need to hack an S3 / THD? Try S3 Hacking Script

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    831
    Quote Originally Posted by unitron View Post
    Go look for Omikron's posts about "prom day" to see if the S3 HD can be prom modded, or if things ended at the original S3.
    Not at all. Tons of people, including me, have replaced their PROMs on their THD, or had it done.
    Having trouble with TyTool? Try TyTool Documentation
    Need to hack an S3 / THD? Try S3 Hacking Script

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Isle of Kent
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    I think I am in a similar situation with a Phillips DSR704 hacked with MRV etc. I am fortunate in that the unit is failing slowly with pixelization on some channels. I can transfer any critical recordings from Unit 1 to Unit 2 through the existing MRV. Then if I just clear and delete all I should be able to move the drive to another Phillips DSR 704/8. Is that correct? I know I will lose Season passes etc. while time consuming they can be set up again fairly easily.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
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    611
    Quote Originally Posted by lrhorer View Post
    If you want to use tserver or mfs_ftp, I think s3tots is your only option, and that converts to .ts, not to .mpg. I used to do that, using VideoRedo to convert to .mpg and edit the files, but it was too troublesome and error prone. Now I just use CCI along with kmttg and tivodecode to convert to .mpg and then VideoRedo to edit can recode to h.264.
    Just to clarify, .ts stands for transport stream. It's a container that holds the elementary video & audio streams, which are in standard MPEG2 format and the .ts file you extract from the Tivo contains the video and audio exactly as it was sent down by your cable company. It can be easily converted to a program stream (.mpg) without re-encoding - essentially you're just re-packing the video & audio streams into a different container. You could even just rename the file from .ts to .mpg. But nearly every program that can play back .mpg files is able to play back .ts files also.

    -psxboy
    TCD652160 TivoHD
    1TB
    11.0n.J1-01-2-652

  15. #30
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    Jan 2006
    Location
    Isle of Kent
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    Just in case this could help anyone. I had a unit with bad tuners. Cleared and deleted everything and put drive in a refurb DirecTiVo 6.2.a both boxes Phillips DSR704. Got the dreaded 51 error. I then ran the Clear and Delete everything on the new box and it cleared the 51 error. I am guessing the clear and delete everything must be done on the new box. At any rate a double clear and delete and we are good to go again.
    Last edited by gkoth; 12-23-2011 at 11:57 PM.

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