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Thread: Proof of Concept; Viable Society

  1. #31
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    Okay so it's one for, and one against. Kinda like damned if you do, damned if you don't. Well, I have untill I get home to think about it.

    Dennis

  2. #32
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    YES, more forums _please_ the S/N ratio is getting out of control.

    to fix the logging problem, how about...

    ...replace the files in /var/log with /dev/null (mknod -m666 LOGFILENAME c 1 3). this oughta fix 'em. chattr if it helps you sleep.

    later.

  3. #33
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    Originally posted by dsboyce8624
    Okay so it's one for, and one against. Kinda like damned if you do, damned if you don't. Well, I have untill I get home to think about it.

    Dennis
    Add me to the YES column Dennis

    I say this because I like the convenience, which allows me to get up and running quickly. But unlike some, I then go back to analyze and dissect the mods to better understand them. I will never be in the league of folks like you, BubbaJ, Surgeon, etc., but I try to absorb whatever I can. I have learned a lot this way, and will always remain indebted to those who blaze the trail.

    If you ultimately decide against release, I hope you'll still be willing to share the refinements piecemeal. Those of us less knowledgeable are grateful for what we receive.
    Last edited by BubbleLamp; 01-11-2002 at 02:55 PM.

  4. #34
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    Jan 2002
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    Another Vote For...

    dsboyce-
    Please do release the updated Xtreme. I have a copy of 2.5, and a DSR6k that UPS is trying to give me. (Need signature...not home, you know the drill.

    So why do I want it? I'm new to hacking both technologies, and it's very, very nice to have all the tools in one place. Does this argue for a version without the script? No, it's a great way to get one's feet wet. For instance, I'll be TiVoNetting this 6k. Xtreme doesn't do that automagically (does it? I didn't see that in the scripts, but I haven't looked at the untarred image.). I'll be doing lots of things to make this box suit my purposes, and I hope to be able to contribute back to the collective, but Xtreme is a great base. It gives use newbies a starting point. If I didn't want to hack, just to steal, I'd go to CCC and give them money. But that's not why I'm in this. I sub to both services, I just want more/different features than the masses, so I hack.

    -Z

  5. #35
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    Jan 2002
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    Boy did this thread make me feel like a ****. I'm very green when it comes to hacking tivo. I used xtreme on my t60 and appreciated the ease of using it. I don't have near the ammount of experience with linux or hacking that some of you have. I am your typical script kiddie. I also never realized the impact that my exploiting of the tools that others made without fully understanding what they were. I can do tons with windows\dos and hopefully some day I'll be at the same level with linux. I'm starting to ramble on now (damn the cold medicine) so I'll just leave you guys with this.......

    Thanks a million times over for everything, and I'm sorry if newbies like me are brining this hobby one step closer to its end.

    (I just thought you guys may appreciate my point of view)

  6. #36
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    khmann

    I tried the mknod, very good idea, except that the files cannot chattr +i. Message "Inappropriate ioctl for device while reading flags on filename". I'm not sure chattr is needed as the files survive a reboot. I'm going to let it run for a while to see how it goes.
    If someone want to TEST this, the following will convert the existing files to null files:
    Code:
    #!/bin/bash
    echo "$1"
    for foo in /var/log/* ; do
      echo "$foo"
      rm -f "$foo"
      if [ "$1" != "touch" ]; then
        mknod -m666 "$foo" c 1 3
      else
        touch "$foo"
      fi
    done
    To convert the files back to regular type (although empty) use the "touch" param.
    ________________________________________________

    Dennis-
    Yes go for it, we appreciate your work, Thanks.

  7. #37
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    Jan 2002
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    Well, I have been doing the DSS thing for a long time now, and I totally understand how the tragedy of the commons hurts people like me who are trying this for a HOBBY. Dennis, I would go as a YES for releasing the new xtreme, but won't blame you no matter what your decision. Thank you all for giving me some important things to think about.

    Ringbill

  8. #38
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    superzap: _sweet_ :)

    I guess the only other note I'd through out there for folks would be comment out 'syslog' from rc.sysinit.

    FWIW, I think it is imperative that we as the TiVo Hacking community oppose commercial TiVo hacks. It's one thing for folks to, on their own time and at their own risk hack TiVo. Hacking the TiVo is a great way to learn some linux and gain some familiarity with embedded systems.

    However, other individuals (Ie Canadian Card Cleaning Jackasses) who actually profit from this public information (at the expense of TiVo), well, it's just wrong. If people are going to pay anyone for TiVo service, it should be TiVo.

    ...I suspect they're probably using a variant of my 'fixup02c' script to do their deed. Where's my compensation?

  9. #39
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    Jun 2001
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    put me down for releasing the new version, im all for it.

    as for the larger questions being posed...i have always been of the opinion that in hacker-type communities, the software should be free as well as the hardware design and schematic information. providing complete tivonet kits is a service to people without PCB skills or equipment, so i don't see why someone doing that is a problem. software, on the other hand, should be free. until a commercial company, CCC for example, makes a significant contribution to the hacker community, they are just making money at the expense of the hackers.

    now, if a company such as CCC produced some fancy new capability on their own, then i would have much more respect for what they are doing. basically, show us you're hackers too, not just profiteers.

    just my .02

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
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    67
    Guess I’ll weigh in as well. Been “involved” with DTV, and in general, embedded systems for many years. Just got involved with Tivo last year. Yes, like many things, the “easy” hacks make it easier for folks to abuse the concept of free TV. That said, I think Tivo and DTV provide great products and should be compensated as such.
    I used to frequent the ADH group quite a bit (still do from time to time) because it was an excellent forum for the free exchange of ideas and information, much like this group is now. Many moons ago some of the pioneers (e.g. Super Dave) stopped [or reduced] their contributions to the group because it became a royal flame-fest. It was no longer about who can build the best script to defeat the latest ECM but who could insult the newbie the fastest or which vendor(s) sucked the most. This is the one of the main reasons that I frequent this group now: it is still about the exchange of ideas and for the most part very civil and polite (ok we have good moderators too). Folks are still dedicated to “the cause” and I hope it continues to be that way. My vote would be an emphatic “yes” to Dennis. Please continue with the new hack. I’ve never shied away from taking the path of least resistance when available. Having the 2.5 xtreme hack was a blessing (pun intended) and served to quickly introduce me to a new hobby and IMHO helped fuel a lot of the great stuff that is being done now. I have a feeling that if Dennis did not produce an easy hack, someone else would so go for it!

  11. #41
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    Jan 2002
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    Thumbs up Another vote for release

    Yes, please release the new version, or at least a "white paper" on what changes are being made in the new version.

  12. #42
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    I'd like to add one more vote for releasing the new version of Extreme. Now for a little discussion. All my life I've used the same approach for learning how to do anything - first of all, have a use. Second of all, find a 'recipe' - something that allows you get the job done easily - but perferably not perfectly. Next, tear apart the 'recipe', figure out what each part does, understand WHY it works that way, and how it can be modified. Lastly, go back over the 'recipe' and make it work perfectly for you. Oh, and after the fact, help others with following the 'recipe' and understanding how it works.

    And while I'm at it, thanks to everyone who has helped create Extreme, and all the other products I use.

    PlainBill
    There's a difference between needing help, and just being plain ole' lazy.

    "You cannot teach a man anything. You can only help him find it for himself." Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

    HR20-700 with 2 TB, HR22-100, HR22-100, HR22-100, HR23-100 all running 0x5cd and networked.

  13. #43
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    Jan 2002
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    I'll second what razor said. adh is about who to trust and who's gonna rip you off. The commercialism and greed turned it in a wrong direction.

  14. #44
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    Jul 2001
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    657
    this is so weird.....
    problems? new bugs? DOH!
    the occocasonial wipe of the /var directory is something the tivo/dtivo crowd has dealt with for quite a while now and the solution thereof is also not new.
    if someone wants to fud their way into making it into marketing tool, so be it. those that can't fathom the solution, well, they seem to be future customers for the $700 freetv version. god bless 'em. whatever twists their twister.
    if someone wants to come by and ask "my /var stuff is gone, what happened?", well, that's part of the learning process as i'm sure they would get an explaination and solution in very short order, and learn a little bit and have some fun, too! (that's kinda the idea, eh?)

    so if someone wants to take the $700 freetv route, more power to ya. for $700, it should come with wonderful tech support and you should never have to learn a thing.

    wanna have some fun and can think of better things to spend $700 on? well, good to see ya! join the party!

    to those who have come up with the simple files and great explainations, keep it up guys! but just don't fret about some guy's fud and marketing campain, ok?

    but as far as some folks claim that they have found some "new bugs"?

    DOH!
    Last edited by Fugg; 01-12-2002 at 12:08 PM.

  15. #45
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    Nov 2001
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    12

    Lightbulb How about cron?

    If there is still time to get it into the next release of Extreme, may I make a couple of suggestions for useful programs?

    Having cron would be very useful. It would make it much easier to create batch jobs to run every day or hour or whatever. I can think of many uses.

    Also, I was surprised to see that the original release did not come with tar and gzip. To me (at least) it makes more sense to transfer the files over to the Tivo (I assume that if you are including ppp, you will also include ftpd) and then un-tar them on the Tivo.

    Nice but not essential would be MC, VIM and Pico. Also Lynx to go hunting around for updates and such.

    But, seriously, cron; tar; and gzip are really needed.

    Thanks for your consideration.

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